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Monday, April 14, 2014

Game of Thrones 4x02: The Lion and the Rose



Opening Credits Map
King’s Landing -> Dragonstone -> Dreadfort -> Winterfell -> The Wall -> Meereen

Dreadfort
Before we get to the fun part we’ll start at Dreadfort. Roose Bolton’s bastard son Ramsay Snow is playing his version the most dangerous game. Theon, er, Reek is now free but completely brainwashed to serve Ramsay. I was thankful for the lack of torture but seeing a presumably innocent young girl get hunted and killed wasn't much better.

I don't really remember the girl who was with Ramsay. Her name is apparently Myranda and she wants to be the fairest one of all. That’s bad news for any girls better looking than her but is presumably good news for the woman who is just slightly less attractive than Myranda. I imagine being the second best looking woman in town can have its advantages.

Anyway, Roose Bolton shows up and he apparently hasn't spent much time with Ramsay because he’s surprised at and none too pleased about what Ramsay did to Theon. Theon had trade value to Balon Greyjoy but Reek does not. Roose’s mood improves when Reek has information regarding the lives of Bran and Rickon Stark and where they’re most likely headed. So Ramsay is off to the Wall. Let’s hope Jon Snow is wearing a codpiece...or is willing to commit more fully to the oath of the Night's Watch.


Northish of The Wall
Bran is wargging his dire wolf, Summer. He seems to be getting addicted to it due to the fact that Summer can walk and he can’t. So being in Summer’s mind is more fun than his own. Jojen and Meera are concerned Bran will lose himself in the animal’s mind. Hodor gave a concerned “Hodor” too.

Bran then talks with a tree. The tree tells him to search beneath another tree farther north. The tree also shows Bran multiple times a vision of when he was pushed out of the castle tower. So, you know, dick move by the tree.

Dragonstone
Last season Stannis Baratheon made himself one of my favorites simply by seeing the note about the white walkers and actually deciding to do something about it. But now he’s pissing me off by burning alive seemingly innocent people in the name of the Lord of Light. He’s also mean to his wife. Then again, she hates her own daughter. So I have no idea how to gauge that situation.

Anyway, Melisandre seems to like Stannis' daughter alright. She’s teaching Shireen about the Lord of Light. I don’t know what religion is the true one in Westeros but I do know that those who worship the Lord of Light birth smoke monsters and come back to life Wolverine style. That’d be enough to get my vote.

King's Landing
Jaime wants to learn to swordfight left handed. Tyrion sends Bronn to spar with him. To keep people from finding out how defenseless Jaime currently is Bronn picks a spot he knows is safe because when he bangs broads there their screaming doesn't garner attention.

Cersei knows about Shae and is going to tell Tywin. Once that happens that will be the end of Shae. So Tyrion is mean to Shae to make her leave King’s Landing. I’m hopeful she’s gone for good because, honestly, I couldn't have cared less about the Tyrion/Shae storyline.

At the wedding breakfast gifts are given to Joffrey. Tyrion gives him a book. This goes over as well as you'd expect. Joffrey feigns appreciation but that goes out the window when Tywin gives Joffrey the second valyrian steel sword and Joffrey quickly tests the blade out on said book. He then chooses to name the sword Widow’s Wail which, incidentally, was the lamest of the suggested names shouted out by the crowd.

The wedding ceremony of Joffrey and Margaery goes surprisingly without a hitch. The same can’t be said about the wedding reception, however.

Loras is first threatened by Jaime who says if Loras marries Cersei she’ll kill him. I’m not sure if Jaime is saying this out of jealousy or just because it’s the truth. But then Jaime says that Loras need not fear because the marriage will never happen. I’m unsure why Jaime believes that.

While we’re on the topic of threatening people, Cersei isn't impressed with Brienne. Well, you can't help but be a little impressed with Brienne but Cersei calls Brienne out on being in love with Jaime. Brienne doesn't deny it.

There are some veiled to not-so-veiled insults hurled between Tywin and Lady Olenna as well as (later) between Cersei and Oberyn. Margaery announces that the ceremony's leftovers will go to the poor. Cersei makes sure this won't happen. I don’t know if this is a power play by Cersei to discredit Margaery or if Cersei is just deathly allergic to any good deed; no matter how tangentially she's related to it.

But the real news is that Joffrey is still an ass. He does his best to humiliate Tyrion by making him his cup bearer. He also gets people to throw stuff at his “fool” Dantos. He also stages a comedic take on the War of the Five kings using little people. Considering that most the people at the head table (as well as at other tables) have had people close to them die because of that war this comedy show doesn't go over very well.

Despite Margaery’s attempts to diffuse the situation Joffrey continues to be an ass. She tried distracting him with pie but Joffrey still demanded that Tyrion serve him wine. Joffrey drinks said wine and begins to cough and choke. Dantos tries (and I believe succeeds) in getting Sansa to come with him to safety as the poisoned Joffrey collapses to the floor and dies.

Cersei predictably points to the wine bearing Tyrion as the culprit. Tyrion predictably gives a "Who me?" look. All Game of Thrones fans predictably cheer the death of Joffrey. Seriously, I think even Jack Gleeson wanted Joffrey to die.

Other Thoughts
The title of the episode is “The Lion and the Rose.” This is likely a reference to Joffrey and Margaery. Although the Lannister’s symbol is the Lion and Joffrey is a Baratheon so he should be known as a Stag.

Then again, I don’t even think anyone in Westeros can call Joffrey a Baratheon without snickering.

The DirecTV description for this episode is “Tyrion helps Jaime; Joffrey and Margaery host a breakfast; Stannis loses patience with Davos; Ramsey finds a purpose for his pet.” That makes Game of Thrones sound like a Saturday morning kids show.

So I believe the girl we saw hunted in the beginning is someone we haven’t seen before.

I’m no expert in sword training but I’d think Jaime would want to practice solo with his left hand before sparring with a partner. Then again, maybe he already has?

I understand that brainwashing Theon did net some information but Theon's value to Balon was solely in Theon's ability to produce an heir. So, frankly, Roose Bolton could have had his cake and eat it too if Ramsay just held off on the castration. Or was Theon's penis so powerful that brainwashing was impossible while it was still attached?

I think wedding breakfasts should be a real thing.

When Tyrion insulted Shae to get her to leave it reminded me of that Saved by the Bell episode where everyone is mean to Slater in order to get him to go to Hawaii.

I wonder how Shireen feels about her face being used as a visual aid.

I’m very curious about this Iron Bank they speak of. Who’s in charge of it? Are they under the rule of the King of Westeros? Do they have reasonable interest rates? Are they FDIC insured?

Jaime's awfully confident confronting Loras considering Loras was a better swordsman than Jaime even before Jaime lost his hand.

I think Tywin is happiest when arguing with people in a seemingly polite tone.

I think it says something about Joffrey’s character that when he told everyone there had been too much amusement at his reception I initially took it at face value.

I'm not saying I'm disappointed it didn't happen but I was a little intrigued exactly how well the bedding ceremony would have gone over.

I suppose it's a bit apropos that Joffrey died at a wedding.

So, we've got ourselves a bit of a whodunit. Cersei thinks it's Tyrion but that's dumb. First of all, if Tyrion wanted Joffrey dead there are plenty of ways he could have made it happen in a much sneakier of fashion. You could argue that the humiliation he endured at the reception was the straw that broke the camel's back but that would suggest Tyrion carries around poison on him at all times on the off chance someone upsets him so much he wants them dead and they're drinking from a cup at the time. Even if Tyrion wanted to kill Joffrey at the wedding reception did he actually foresee that Joffrey would make him the cup bearer? I’m sure he expected some form of humiliation but that could have come in one of many of forms.

I don't think any of the Tyrells did it. I'm certainly not putting Margaery above murdering Joffrey, I just assume she would've liked to have birthed a male child first.

Oberyn isn't above suspicion considering the contentious conversations he has had with multiple Lannisters and there's well know bad blood between the Martells and the Lannisters.

Varys always claims that he serves "the realm." Hey, there's no greater service to the realm than killing Joffrey.

There's a dark horse in this conversation. I mean, can we ever completely rule out someone whose nickname is "The King Slayer?"

The leader in the clubhouse is Dantos since he had motive (well, who doesn't?), opportunity and was on the ball in getting Sansa the hell out of there as soon as Joffrey started choking. In fact, it seems so obvious it was him he either didn't do it or they'll probably just confirm it was him in the next episode.

So Tommen Baratheon is now the king? I don’t know much about him but I assume he'll make a better king than Joffrey because, well, how couldn't you?

I'm not sure what I think about Joffrey dying. He was a heck of a villain. (Let this be a lesson to all you aspiring writers. If you want to make a villain that's truly hated then make them evil, sniveling and weak but dangerous due to the unearned position of authority they have found themselves in.) So Joffrey was certainly fun to root against but his continued survival was getting unrealistic for me. He was antagonizing so many people in so many different ways that I felt like someone would eventually have killed him in a blind rage without any thought of the consequences.

It should be noted that we got no nudity this episode. Also, I've decided to add a new count of how many times Hodor says Hodor. Or do we think I should go with any time anyone says Hodor?

Jaime: Bold warrior you are attacking a man when his guard's down.
Bronn: Best time to attack a man!

Sansa: We have a new queen.
Tyrion: Better her than you.

Joffrey: Ugh...ugh...ack...cough...ugh...gurgle...

Season 4 Totals
Boob Count: 4
Full Frontal Count: 2 (2 Female)
Butt Count: 1 (1 Female)
Coitus Count: 0
Main Character Death Count: 1 (Joffrey...I'm sure everyone is sad to see you go.)
Hodor Count: 1

10 comments:

  1. I was genuinely surprised by Joffrey's death. Even as he was choking, blood leaking out his nose, and Mrs. Teebore is saying "wow, they're actually killing Joffrey", I said, "no way, this is a trick or something". Given how much GRRM likes to dick around his audience, I figured he'd never give us the pleasure of killing of Joffrey.

    Though, as my brother then pointed out, even when giving us something we wanted to see, he did it in the least satisfying way: Joffrey's death immediately implicates Tyrion (one of our favorite characters) and it doesn't come at the hands of the many, many people he's wronged, so we don't get that vicarious rush of REVENGE!!! like we would if, say, Arya stabbed him with Needle or Sansa clubbed him to death with a book.

    So, you know, dick move by the tree.

    Ha!

    In Bran's vision we also saw an image of a dragon flying over King's Landing, as well as the snow-covered Iron Throne that appeared in Dany's vision of the future back at the end of season 2, when she was wandering around Warlock Dean Pelton's fortress yelling about her dragons. For what all that's worth...

    Also, at this point, who do you think is taller: Sansa, Bran, Brienne, Walt from Lost, or Shaq?

    He’s also mean to his wife. Then again, she hates her own daughter. So I have no idea how to gauge that situation.

    Plus, I get the impression that she's doing a lot of egging on when it comes to the whole "burning the heretics" business. But yeah, after last season ended with Stannis seemingly finding new purpose in doing something about the White Walkers, I was bummed to see him back to twiddling his thumbs already. Like, I didn't expect him to be sailing north or anything (not at this show's pace), but maybe a conversation about preparations for that voyage amongst all the heretic burning?

    That’d be enough to get my vote.

    Though they are also very pro-burning people. Which, you know, if you're a believer, no biggee, but how long before the other shoe drops and someone who doesn't like you accuses *you* of being a heretic?

    I’m hopeful she’s gone for good because, honestly, I couldn't have cared less about the Tyrion/Shae storyline.

    Seriously. I was just glad he finally got her to leave. It was maddening how dumb she was being about how much danger she is was in. Like, seriously, lady, this is not a joke. His dad will kill you dead in an instant, without a second thought. Take this seriously.

    I was pretty much at the point where I almost wanted her to get caught, just so she'd realize Tyrion wasn't blowing her off and was completely serious about the danger.

    As the wedding went on, and we spent more time then usual in one location, I knew we were building to something big. I was expecting Joffrey to unveil Shae at some point and kill her in front of Tyrion, prompting Tyrion to actually attack him or something. Of course, what happened was much bigger than that, but of course, now for anyone who knew about Shae, Tyrion looks even more guilty.

    Joffrey quickly tests the blade out on said book

    Truly, the saddest scene yet on the show for me. Not a book, you little monster!

    He then chooses to name the sword Widow’s Wail which, incidentally, was the lamest of the suggested names shouted out by the crowd.

    But totally the name Joffrey would choose, both because it's the lamest and the creepiest.

    I’m not sure if Jaime is saying this out of jealousy or just because it’s the truth.

    It could be that he knows the Lannisters have some plan in place to prevent the marriage. Or, it could be that he knows Joffrey is about to be killed and the whole political situation about to be upended.

    Or he's just jealous.

    I don’t know if this is a power play by Cersei to discredit Margaery or if Cersei is just deathly allergic to any good deed

    Heh. I assumed the former, but you're right that Cersei is just kinda mean like that.

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  2. Seriously, I think even Jack Gleeson wanted Joffrey to die.

    Considering he apparently retired from acting like, thirty seconds after the episode ended, probably.

    Then again, I don’t even think anyone in Westeros can call Joffrey a Baratheon without snickering.

    I did notice that during the wedding ceremony, Joffrey was referred to by the sept/priest/whatever as "Joffrey of Houses Lannister and Baratheon", which I gather is pretty unusual (Westeros doesn't really seem to go in much for hyphenated names). Presumably, this was just a means to reinforce that the Lannisters are the true power in Westeros now, even if Joffrey is officially a Baratheon. But I chuckled nonetheless, because apparently even the priestly class is aware of how much a sham "Joffrey Baratheon" is.

    When Tyrion insulted Shae to get her to leave it reminded me of that Saved by the Bell episode where everyone is mean to Slater in order to get him to go to Hawaii.

    Cross promotion!

    I’m very curious about this Iron Bank they speak of.

    I think it's actually headquartered in Essos, making it a bit like the GoT version of a Swiss bank account, but I'm not 100% sure about that. I know Tyrion mentioned it last season (and how much in debt to it the Crown was), when he was made Master of Coin after Littlefinger left.

    Hey, remember Littlefinger?

    I'm not saying I'm disappointed it didn't happen but I was a little intrigued exactly how well the bedding ceremony would have gone over.

    Ditto. After the ceremony, I was thinking, "so...you gonna through with this and sleep with him, Margaery?"

    So, we've got ourselves a bit of a whodunit.

    Seriously. It's like Gosford Park. Or "Who Shot Mr. Burns?". Everyone's a suspect!

    I agree that Tyrion is way too obvious. I'd maybe think Sansa could have finally grown a spine and done something when she handed Tyrion the glass, but the way she was spirited away by Dontos suggests she didn't know what was happening.

    I wouldn't count out the Tyrell's entirely. I think it's notable that Joffrey died AFTER the wedding. If someone wanted to kill him, they could have done it relatively easily at any point before the wedding. But theoretically, the Tyrells gain something by waiting to bump him off until after Margaery becomes queen. Also, I'm pretty sure it was the pie/cake that was poisoned, not the wine. He was the only one eating it (Margaery was feeding him, but we never saw her take a bite) and he complained that it was dry, suggesting it tasted differently than he was expecting.

    Of course, Westeros seems to follow Salic Law pretty rigidly, so maybe Margaery being queen doesn't matter at all. In which case, I wouldn't count out Tywin as a suspect: if Tommen becomes king, that puts Cersei back in as Queen Regent, meaning Tywin, as Hand and Cersei's father, becomes even more the true ruler than he was as Joffrey's Hand, especially since Tommen is presumably more pliable and easier to control than Joffrey, especially since he's younger.

    (Cue people who have read the books laughing at our speculation).

    Or do we think I should go with any time anyone says Hodor?

    Just when Hodor says it.

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  3. During the wedding ceremony, exactly as the priest said the Westeros version of "what God has joined, let no man put asunder," the camera very clearly focused on Oberyn in the audience, over Margaery's shoulder. That could be intentional misdirection, and he does seem a very obvious choice, but nonetheless, it makes him my best guess.

    Also, as Teebore implies, it's funny to me that there are tons of people in the world who already know the answer and have known for over a decade, but I'm completely in the dark.

    Besides the King's Landing stuff -- which is almost always the best material for me -- I was not all that impressed with this episode. Bran's story continues to bore me to tears. I'm sure it's going someplace big, but the journey is painfully slow and dull. I did appreciate seeing Ned's eye in his vision, though.

    If I had to rank my favorite locales to watch on this show, as far as the characters involved with them, it would be, as noted, King's Landing first, followed by wherever Arya and the Hound are, followed by Castle Black. The other pieces varyingly hold my interest, but those three always have my full attention.

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  4. @Teebore: "n Bran's vision we also saw an image of a dragon flying over King's Landing, as well as the snow-covered Iron Throne that appeared in Dany's vision of the future back at the end of season 2"

    I still say the White Walkers are more or less going to take over Westeros only to have Dany swoop in and burn them all with her dragons. Fire, ice, songs and such...


    "Also, at this point, who do you think is taller: Sansa, Bran, Brienne, Walt from Lost, or Shaq?"

    I'd have to go with Shaq...but he's losing ground fast!

    "Plus, I get the impression that she's doing a lot of egging on when it comes to the whole "burning the heretics" business."

    Yeah, Stannis' wife is certainly on board with the Lord of Light. She doesn't even care he's getting with Melisandre. So apparently, the Lord of Light isn't big on monogamy. Another reason to get behind that religion! (Uh...and I wonder why I'm single.)

    Speaking of Melisandre, Joffrey is the second of the "leeches" to die. Balon Greyjoy, you're apparently next!

    "I was expecting Joffrey to unveil Shae at some point and kill her in front of Tyrion"

    I, too, was awaiting some sort of version of this scenario to play out.

    "It could be that he knows the Lannisters have some plan in place to prevent the marriage."

    Yeah, except Tywin Lannister is the one who orchestrated the engagement.

    "Hey, remember Littlefinger?"

    Thanks for stealing the joke I was going to use in the next post...assuming he doesn't show up.

    "Of course, Westeros seems to follow Salic Law pretty rigidly, so maybe Margaery being queen doesn't matter at all."

    That's the feeling I got. I think, unless she had birthed an heir first, Joffrey dying means Margaery is nothing...except a Lady in a very powerful house, but you know what I'm saying.

    "Also, I'm pretty sure it was the pie/cake that was poisoned, not the wine."

    New theory! Everyone we mentioned separately plotted against Joffrey and poisoned a different food/drink he consumed!

    @Matt: "During the wedding ceremony, exactly as the priest said the Westeros version of "what God has joined, let no man put asunder," the camera very clearly focused on Oberyn in the audience"

    Good catch! It could be misdirection but it is interesting.

    "Besides the King's Landing stuff -- which is almost always the best material for me -- I was not all that impressed with this episode."

    I don't disagree with you but since most of the episode took place in King's Landing and it was all rather interesting there I'd still call it a good episode.

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  5. Roose correcting his bastard son that he's a Snow, not a Bolton, got me reflecting on a curious aspect of the highly patriarchal, chauvinistic Westeros: Even though it's men who rule as kings, it takes a woman — specifically, a wife — to confer her husband's family name on his offspring. Ramsey and Jon Snow may be their fathers' sons in all but name, yet that phrase is as exclusionary as it is inclusive in a very key aspect.


    I've been laughing a little whenever I think of Bronn's response to Jaime on whether the spot where they were sparring was isolated enough.

    Stannis' family situation is definitely effed up. He reluctantly shtupped Melisandre, but his dotty wife is like, "No no no... I gave you a horrible scaly-faced daughter. She has given you a son!" Yes, Melisandre gave birth to a creature of black smoke in Stannis' image who killed Stannis' brother Renly for him. And maybe next Sunday they'll go fishing.

    // The wedding ceremony of Joffrey and Margaery goes surprisingly without a hitch //

    You might want to rephrase that.

    I got the sense that Brienne was impressed by and indebted to Jaime, but not that she was in love with him, so it was odd to see her fail to protest Cersei's statement. Could be she was just flustered and/or felt that denying it would only have further confirmed to Cersei what she already believed. Still, I feel like if Martin intends this to be truth it's been poorly suggested on the show.

    // Despite Margaery’s attempts to diffuse the situation Joffrey continues to be an ass. She tried distracting him with pie but Joffrey still demanded that Tyrion serve him wine. //

    I'm a little disappointed that Joffrey died before it was even confirmed whether he liked pie. As much as he got into showing off his crossbow for Margaery, I think that scene was sexually charged mostly in the sense of Joffrey's own full-of-himself autoeroticism. He didn't do anything more with the women Tyrion sent him than physically abuse them and I'd been wondering if the depiction of Renly in the Five Kings wedding skit, as well as previous snide remarks from Joffrey along those lines, were a kind of displaced self-loathing of his own repressed homosexual urges or if he was just a completely asexual sociopath.

    Dick Move by the Tree is my new band name.

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  6. @Teebore: // It was maddening how dumb [Shae] was being about how much danger she is was in. Like, seriously, lady, this is not a joke. His dad will kill you dead in an instant, without a second thought. //

    Which isn't even the worst! Shae had a line this episode that she wasn't afraid to die or wasn't afraid what they would do to her, and whichever one it was I was thinking that it's one thing to be wiling to die but another to just put yourself at the mercy of the Lannisters. You'd hope Tywin, let alone Joffrey or Cersei, would kill you dead in an instant.

    I'm right there with you and your brother, Teebore, in terms of how confounding Joffrey's death was. And it's not just that we don't get the catharsis in the moment — once the murderer(s) is/are revealed, even if that's very satisfying to us, we'll still be missing the component of Joffrey having known who did this to him. Maybe it's just as fitting that he doesn't know because it could have been so many people, but that feels like a very exegetic way of looking at it; Joffrey was probably thinking "Who could possibly have done this? I'm the King! I'm awesome!"

    @Teebore: // Not a book, you little monster! //

    Seriously. All that was going through my mind was how much time and effort went into handcrafting that massive thing.

    @Teebore: // Also, I'm pretty sure it was the pie/cake that was poisoned, not the wine. //

    It was the salmon mousse.

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  8. But he didn't eat the salmon mousse!

    I'm reasonably sure the two girls in the Ramsayhunt were the two that seduced Theon last season to make his cock easier to find and remove. So "innocent" is arguably stretching it a bit, though if Ramsay was my lord and told me to help castrate someone, I doubt I'd say no.

    Regarding Jaime and Loras, it's worth noting that Loras is better at jousting (or at least the one time we know they clashed, Loras won), but there's nothing to suggest Loras would beat Jaime with a sword. I've always wondered who Jaime is thinking of when he tells Brienne there are three people who might be able to beat him. I assume one is Ser Barristan. Maybe Loras is another, but if so, the comment itself suggests neither of them know who would have won had they ever had the chance to spar properly.

    As to Jaime thinking there might be a Lannister plot to stop the wedding, I'd point out it was the Lannisters who wanted the wedding, it was the Tyrells who were rather less keen. Tywin had to threaten to sign Loras up to the Kingsguard before Olenna relented. Which is interesting considering Loras was named to the Kingsguard after the Battle of Blackwater in the books, though in the books he has two older brothers, making the decision to be celibate rather less of an issue to his family.

    As to who killed Joffrey, I'm obviously not able to join in the speculation as I've read the books. I will say, though, that if the show stays true to the books the truth may be something you'll have to infer rather than be explicitly presented with. Martin likes to provide the evidence but not the confession. Indeed, he gave an interview recently where he specifically referenced a mystery from the books and said "It's been specifically written to implicate one person as follows, yadda yadda yadda, but I reserve the right to show that's all bullshit in a later book".

    Those of us reading the books still don't know who sent the assassin to kill Bran back in the second episode of season one, for instance. Several theories have been put forward by various characters, and one seems far more compelling than the others, but we'll almost certainly never know. In contrast, the show seemed to pretty clearly implicate Jaime, but the scene where Cersei seemed to be accusing him of sending the assassin was ambiguous enough to make one wonder.

    That said, there are a couple of really important facts from the book that this episode didn't make use of, which rather suggests they intend to take a different tack. Or maybe it was just an editing thing, like how last season Bran's really useful reminder that guest-right is sacrosanct, presumably only filmed to make the Red Wedding more shocking, actually showed up in the episode after Robb's worst day ever.

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  9. @SpaceSquid: // Loras was named to the Kingsguard after the Battle of Blackwater in the books, though in the books he has two older brothers, making the decision to be celibate rather less of an issue to his family. //

    The Kingsguard required celibacy too? I didn't know / missed that. You'd think it would make Tywin even more adamant about Jaime not being in the Kingsguard, then. Sure, Cersei has provided offspring, but they're nominally Baratheons, and even if Tyrion provides a male heir to carry on the Lannister name who's not a dwarf he would still be problematic to celebrate just for being Tyrion's. I'm surprised that there hasn't been more pressure from Tywin on Jaime, being the golden boy and eldest son, to settle down and procreate, even apart from gossip about his relationship with Cersei.

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  10. @Blam

    The Kingsguard required celibacy too? I didn't know / missed that.

    I believe it was mentioned when Tywin threatened to induct Loras into the KG. It's for the same reason as in the Night's Watch; you're dedicating yourself to a cause so important you can't be allowed the risk of divided loyalties. Indeed, in the books I'm reasonably sure there's a story about introducing the idea specifically because some commander of the KG ended up having to choose between his king and his lover, and things all got a bit Jaime Lannister.

    Speaking of which...

    You'd think it would make Tywin even more adamant about Jaime not being in the Kingsguard, then. Sure, Cersei has provided offspring, but they're nominally Baratheons, and even if Tyrion provides a male heir to carry on the Lannister name who's not a dwarf he would still be problematic to celebrate just for being Tyrion's. I'm surprised that there hasn't been more pressure from Tywin on Jaime, being the golden boy and eldest son, to settle down and procreate, even apart from gossip about his relationship with Cersei.

    Yeah, it's a strange one. The book background makes it clear Tywin didn't have any choice when Jaime signed up, because he couldn't go against Aerys on the matter. It's not clear to me why he didn't put pressure on Robert to release him form his vows later, though. Unless it genuinely hadn't occurred to him to try until Joffers kicked Selmy to the curb. Apparently there was at least one thing the MadGitBoy King managed to teach his granddad before the end.

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