tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post8167385797417807742..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining X-Force #48Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-64545256864081148802023-07-17T01:33:43.634-05:002023-07-17T01:33:43.634-05:00Part of it may have been the X- editors coming to ...Part of it may have been the X- editors coming to the conclusion that in order to make Onslaught "work" Xavier had to be a big loser who failed at everything he did (Even if they didn't have Xavier specifically pegged as Onslaught at the time, they probably had a inkling it was somehow tied to his failings.)Jon Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11783906806644566810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-85705812531394320852020-04-17T10:12:53.143-05:002020-04-17T10:12:53.143-05:00Yeah, I think by the time Liefeld came into the pi...Yeah, I think by the time Liefeld came into the picture and began to exert more control over the overall direction, all that stuff got pushed aside. The future Image guys clearly had little interest in those characters, and wanted to go about crafting their own takes (be it Liefeld's militant X-Force or Lee's back-to-basics, cover-the-classics and pump up my Upstarts character approaches). Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-7344215885872846692020-03-31T21:51:41.360-05:002020-03-31T21:51:41.360-05:00Austin, I know that. I should have been clear. I m...Austin, I know that. I should have been clear. I meant once they returned from Asgard and that alien planet. I still remember that Liefeld drawn issue in which Cyclops calls Valerie Cooper and demanda to have Rusty and Skids freed... and does nothing afterwards.Licínio Mirandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12545823888354348526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-78904578941849571302020-03-31T10:05:14.441-05:002020-03-31T10:05:14.441-05:00Was Sebastian Shaw's return ever explained, or...<i>Was Sebastian Shaw's return ever explained, or is this another case of He Got Better?</i><br /><br />Mostly "He Got Better"; to be fair, he did die by "bomb", which maybe isn't the best way to try to kill someone with his power, but I don't think there's ever a real concrete explanation for his recovery. <br /><br /><i>It seems like the entire thing was an editorially mandated concept that no one actually bothered to create a story around</i><br /><br />I don't think it was his idea, but frankly, it all feels a lot like one of Lobdell's "make it up as we go along" pitches. "Hey, what if Sabretooth lived in the mansion?" "Great! Then what?" "I dunno, we'll figure that out later!" <br /><br />It definitely reads like a gear switching - pre AoA, it was this whole rumination on redemption and whether Xavier could "cure" him. Post-AoA, it's "he's better/is he?/no, he's not". The latter seems like an attempt to close off the plot and get the character out of the mansion as quickly as possible (while wringing it for max drama along the way), but I have no idea when the decision was made to switch gears or why (frankly, it could very well be that the decision was made to recreate the AoA Sabretooth/Wild Child pairing in X-FACTOR so they moved the plot along to accomplish that. Or, that pairing took advantage of the decision to move Sabretooth out that had already been made. >shrug<). Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-19035248669552267732020-03-31T00:10:59.766-05:002020-03-31T00:10:59.766-05:00Was Sebastian Shaw's return ever explained, or...Was Sebastian Shaw's return ever explained, or is this another case of He Got Better?<br /><br />I wonder if the creative teams switched gears on the Sabretooth subplot somewhere along the line. They take him in, he may or may not be faking it / turning evil again, then SURPRISE he was faking it (eventually) and is now evil. That's it? It seems like the entire thing was an editorially mandated concept that no one actually bothered to create a story around.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03302434296164953767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-62035251128496931132020-03-30T12:29:52.271-05:002020-03-30T12:29:52.271-05:00It’s almost as if Marvel took for granted that rea...<i>It’s almost as if Marvel took for granted that readers were buying everything.</i><br /><br />They absolutely did. Their entire business model at this point was built around the idea that you had to buy it all, and if you weren't, and missed something or were confused about something, that was on you, not them. <br /><br /><i>Louse Simonson and her immediate successors did their best to ignore completely any previous links between the X-Factor and their former wards. </i><br /><br />Well, Louise Simonson didn't - she's the one who established those links in the first place (with the exception of Rusty & Artie, all the X-Factor wards came into the group under Simonson, and hung around until she wrote them out or moved them into her NEW MUTANTS book circa "Inferno"). Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-68219857043126621102020-03-30T12:20:20.831-05:002020-03-30T12:20:20.831-05:001) Sebastian Shaw died in what can be considered a...1) Sebastian Shaw died in what can be considered a cameo in X-Factor, a comic book in which he had never shown up before. Now he re-appears in X-Force, a comic book in which he never showed up as well. What’s wrong with these people? It should have been on Uncanny X-Men. It’s almost as if Marvel took for granted that readers were buying everything.<br /><br />2) The entire “Sabertooth as a prisoner at the X-Mansion/with the mind of a child” was a complete waste. I’m not saying that he should have become a good character. I always felt it is a mistake to make characters who did irremediably acts of evil or cruelty to become good. It can’t work. If Sabertooth is depicted as a murderer, and one who has killed dozens, if not hundreds, including children, you can’t place him in a superhero group as a Wolverine replacement, even if he’s there against his will. It can’t work. It makes the “heroes” who accept him immoral or idiotic.<br /><br />3) If everyone considers Sabertooth to be evil, then why is he at the X-Mansion and not in a prison? Or why anyone, such as Boomer, can easily contact him and be near him? In fact, why does she cares about him? I remember that she appeared immediately after the Mutant Massacre. She met the survivors. I find hard to accept that someone who met a rape survivor would be willing to befriend the rapist. But, as Austin correctly mentioned, Loeb didn’t seem to remember that Boomer actually knew Caliban from the X-Factor days. Can anyone really blame him? Louse Simonson and her immediate successors did their best to ignore completely any previous links between the X-Factor and their former wards. How many interactions did Cyclops had specifically with them during this period in which they lived under the same roof? None.Licínio Mirandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12545823888354348526noreply@blogger.com