tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post7527417492625426690..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining X-Factor #25Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-78156595190798204382023-06-20T20:28:21.048-05:002023-06-20T20:28:21.048-05:00This is why the infamous "Know them by their ...This is why the infamous "Know them by their deeds" slogan doesn't bother me that much. Because it seems most of the time Weezie was taking the piss outta it, with several people featured mocking the concept and throwing it back in the team's faces.Jon Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11783906806644566810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-64404435753180250592014-03-21T11:40:08.928-05:002014-03-21T11:40:08.928-05:00@wwk5d: Also, Walt S produces some solid work here...@wwk5d: <i>Also, Walt S produces some solid work here. It's not as good or inspired as his work on Thor, but it's a damn good looking issue.</i><br /><br />Agreed. <br /><br />@Matt: <i>I wonder if Simonson wrote it first and Gruenwald decided to get in on the action or (and this seems more likely) Gruenwald asked Simonson if she would do it so he could get in on the action.</i><br /><br />I agreed; the latter seems much more likely. <br /><br />@Jason: <i>There's no sense of huge scale at all, it's just 100 panels of a "ship" that looks like a pair of binoculars, knocking into sh*t. </i><br /><br />I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree - I thought Walt did a good job of showing the scale of the ship, increasing the panel sizes from half page to full page (when it hits the Empire State Building) and then back down to smaller panels as it lands on the old X-Factor HQ. <br /><br />If anything, this issue is a high point in Simonson art for me, especially since things get a little wonky in "Inferno", especially after Milgrom comes aboard. <br /><br />@Blam: <i>Have we ever seen the amazing innate sense of spatial relations that Scott possesses applied beyond his eyebeams?</i><br /><br />Offhand, I can't think of a time he used it without also using his optic blasts. How about that handball match with Storm in issue #154? Or were they both using their powers in that game? Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-47073192507102308292014-03-19T23:48:33.185-05:002014-03-19T23:48:33.185-05:00I know that Scott can do insanely tricky stuff wit...<br>I <i>know</i> that Scott can do insanely tricky stuff <i>with his optic blasts</i>. That scene with the pool table in #144 comes to mind often (albeit, unfortunately, as much for its suspect display of how much finesse Scott has with his beams when lifting his ruby-quartz glasses as for his skill). What I'm curious about is whether the innate ability to do complex maneuvers like that with his optic blasts has ever been established or exploited in terms of using other objects, be it manual dexterity in combat or playing sports or his affinity for piloting aircraft.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-38877675585461082532014-03-19T13:39:19.770-05:002014-03-19T13:39:19.770-05:00@ Blam: I'm wondering if he'd be as good ...@ Blam: <i> I'm wondering if he'd be as good at billiards</i><br /><br />The very first picture ever I met Wolverine - and instantanously fell in love with him - was in the beginning of UXM 199 where Scott shows off to shut down the Danger Room by richocheting his beam and has Logan clap at him commenting "Remind me never to face you over a pool table".<br /><br />I don't think it's wise for us to disagree with him.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-57662805502193879682014-03-19T13:28:31.788-05:002014-03-19T13:28:31.788-05:00P.S.: I love the open balloons at the panel border...P.S.: I love the open balloons at the panel borders, too. I wish more letterers did it that way.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-11813996248439099242014-03-19T13:27:38.480-05:002014-03-19T13:27:38.480-05:00Blam -- " I'm wondering if he'd be as...Blam -- "<b> I'm wondering if he'd be as good at billiards — or making some sort of bank shot in a battle situation — with a mundane implement in his hands as he is with the actual power that developed the skill in the first place.</b>"<br /><br />Well, he does sink all the balls on a pool table in <i>Uncanny</i> #144 with one shot, though he does so with his optic blast rather than a cue. So what does that tell us? I'm not sure.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-13979728493221993182014-03-18T21:15:17.337-05:002014-03-18T21:15:17.337-05:00@Matt: // I'm hard pressed to recall ever seei...<br>@Matt: <i>// I'm hard pressed to recall ever seeing Reagan make a public appearance in a cowboy hat. //</i><br /><br />I'll second that. Not unless he was on horseback for vacation at his ranch, anyway.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-25708301247550378432014-03-18T21:13:17.123-05:002014-03-18T21:13:17.123-05:00Did Medusa stand in for Jean on this cover?
"...<br>Did Medusa stand in for Jean on this cover?<br /><br />"Ha! Ha! Ha!" I roll my eyes at your staccato laughter, Apocalypse.<br /><br /><i>Now</i> the piping on Warren's suit is red. Most of the issue, anyway, briefly reverting to pink on Pg. 21 when he crosses paths with Scott... whose optic blasts are pink instead of red!<br /><br />I don't know if anyone cares, but I suspect that Walt began to place balloons with this issue and that he lettered the story title as well. The letterforms in that big "Judgment Day!" look very much like his sense of design. As far as the balloons, I haven't noticed them being open at the panel borders to this extent before, which is a trait of his frequent letterer John Workman's that I believe Walt likes (and which I like as well). <br /><br />That "one in a million" shot of Hank's on Pg. 6 got me wondering: Have we ever seen the amazing innate sense of spatial relations that Scott possesses applied beyond his eyebeams? I'm wondering if he'd be as good at billiards — or making some sort of bank shot in a battle situation — with a mundane implement in his hands as he is with the actual power that developed the skill in the first place.<br /><br />Although some of the smaller figure work is sketchy and poorly proportioned, for my money Walt lays out some great panels of the ship amidst the city skyline, nicely realized by his pencils and Wiacek's inks.<br /><br />"War's produce is destruction!" I know what farmer's market <i>I'm</i> avoiding.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-17831197559125403442014-03-15T13:13:35.090-05:002014-03-15T13:13:35.090-05:00That said, the other examples you give are coincid...That said, the other examples you give are coincidences that begin stories. The example here is a lucky coincidence that concludes a story, which can feel a little bit pat.<br /><br />But in and of itself, I could buy it. The occasional happy ending for a mutant team is fine. Of course, next issue ends with the city throwing a freaking *parade* for X-Factor, and that I don't like at all. Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-63106477720076216682014-03-15T13:10:15.236-05:002014-03-15T13:10:15.236-05:00"so I don't think that can be held agains..."so I don't think that can be held against the Simonsons"<br /><br />Yeah, I probably made it sound too much like I didn't like that. I'm fine with the idea and agree that it is thematically appropriate. I just hate the way they did it.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-76664590241803355892014-03-15T02:22:54.185-05:002014-03-15T02:22:54.185-05:00wwk5d -- "what was mangled was that they had ...wwk5d -- "<b>what was mangled was that they had set up a sub-plot for a while where Warren wasn't necessarily in control of his wings</b>..."<br /><br />Oh yeah, I had forgotten all about that plot. I distinctly recall Archangel's wings beheading a member of the Mutant Liberation Front during "X-Cutioner's Song". Having not read much <i>X-Factor</i>, I didn't realize that storyline had existed for so long.<br /><br />Jason -- "<b>could JUST about forgive the extraordinary coincidence of the ship landing on X-Factor Headquarters</b>..."<br /><br />While I agree it's a coincidence, the X-books have always thrived on coincidences (Cyclops randomly washing ashore on Magneto's island, or Magneto conveniently splashing to Earth right near Lee Forrester's boat, for example), so I don't think that can be held against the Simonsons. I agree with you, though, on Walt's decision to show the crash via smaller panels. It sucks the grandeur out of the whole thing.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-46857476136982220302014-03-14T23:57:12.699-05:002014-03-14T23:57:12.699-05:00Um, what was mangled was that they had set up a su...Um, what was mangled was that they had set up a sub-plot for a while where Warren wasn't necessarily in control of his wings, and they had been seen acting out on their own occasionally. Well, until Jean come along and just screeches at him that no, his wings were never out of control, it was always him, and that he just needed to get over it...I think I'll just re-post this from G. Kendall's review of Uncanny # 293 (original link at http://notblogx.blogspot.com/2007/10/uncanny-x-men-293-october-1992.html):<br /><br />"but I certainly noticed the retcon involving Archangel’s wings. It ranks down there with Gwen Stacy and Norman Osborn’s love children in terms of poorly thought-out retcons that don’t make sense. Having Jean reveal this, and say that she knew it all along, makes it stink even worse (it also reminds me of Mary Jane telling Peter that she knew about Gwen’s affair all along, too). I hadn’t read a lot of the original X-Factor issues at this point, but almost every one I had read focused on Warren’s out of control wings hurting innocent people (I could be wrong, but I think his wings might’ve actually killed some characters). Now we’re supposed to believe that Jean knew that he could stop this all along, but never told him? This is ridiculous.<br /><br />This retcon was apparently done to remove a lot of Archangel’s angst and lighten the character up. I don’t have a problem with the goal, but the execution is terrible. Why would learning this cheer him up? Wouldn’t the knowledge that he had hurt so many innocent people, and try to kill his friends, just drive him further into depression? Not in the world of Uncanny X-Men, apparently."<br /><br />Which, yeah, just mangled...granted, it does reflect the behind the scenes drama affecting the titles at the time. Of course, if only Jean had screeched at Warren to just "get over it" much earlier, Warren might have just re-joined the team right after FOTM. I agree with Kendall; I don't mind them lightening up Warren as a character at that point, but the execution was just beyond lousy. <br /><br />Also, for what it's worth, I preferred the metal wings to the feathered ones. wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-45622342510303239552014-03-14T23:44:21.604-05:002014-03-14T23:44:21.604-05:00And here's the rant ...
This issue was the fi...And here's the rant ...<br /><br />This issue was the final nail in the coffin of my opinion of Simonson-squared.<br /><br />Man, this was awful. That one lame Horseman whinging about "America's breadbasket" over and over ... lame appearance by Power Pack ... pages and pages of histrionic word-balloons ...<br /><br />I could JUST about forgive the extraordinary coincidence of the ship landing on X-Factor Headquarters, for symbolic resonance ... but Iceman and Beast's lame "Scooby and Shaggy" hug while they grin goofily and shout "Destroy the mutant hunters!" is both excruciatingly corny and annoyingly on-the-nose.<br /><br />And I've zero love for the artwork here. The "falling ship" sequence is one of the most boring things I've ever read in a superhero comic-book ... There's no sense of huge scale at all, it's just 100 panels of a "ship" that looks like a pair of binoculars, knocking into sh*t. This one's a true low-point, for me.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-44782671435397575162014-03-14T15:32:05.265-05:002014-03-14T15:32:05.265-05:00Actually, I should say -- "I'm hard-press...Actually, I should say -- "I'm hard-pressed to remember Reagan ever making a <b>formal</b> public appearance in a cowboy hat. Like a bill-signing, for example.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-10280701167622073512014-03-14T15:30:14.869-05:002014-03-14T15:30:14.869-05:00Apocalypse sending Famine to Kansas is such a rand...Apocalypse sending Famine to Kansas is such a random thing. I wonder if Simonson wrote it first and Gruenwald decided to get in on the action or (and this seems more likely) Gruenwald asked Simonson if she would do it so he could get in on the action.<br /><br />"<b>And though Angel appears with X-Factor at the end of the issue, he won't rejoin the team until "Inferno", maintaining a presence in the book in the intervening issues but mostly keeping to himself.</b>"<br /><br />Having read very little <i>X-Factor</i>, I have to say that I did not know that. Interesting.<br /><br />"<b>Ronald Reagan is shown signing the Mutant Registration Act into law.</b>"<br /><br />I fully admit that I wasn't into politics in 1988 -- being nine years old and all at the time -- but I'm hard pressed to recall ever seeing Reagan make a public appearance in a cowboy hat.<br /><br /><br />wwk5d -- "<b>Which continues decently into the early 90s until horribly mangled by Scot Lobdell.</b>"<br /><br />What was mangled about it? I was thrilled when Lobdell restored Angel's original wings, though simultaneously disappointed that his skin color wasn't changed back at the same time. I still can't believe it took years more for Chuck Austen, of all writers, to finally undo the blue!<br /><br />If you're referring to the fact that Apocalypse had apparently given Angel the metal wings to let his originals heal inside -- which really makes no sense, logistically or motivationally, then I'd agree there was some mangling involved. But I don't think restoring the character to his original self was a mistake.<br /><br />wwk5d -- "<b>FYI, the DD issue is pretty good, though from past comments, not sure how many people would appreciate it, since I do think it's written by Ann Nocenti.</b>"<br /><br />I read it for the first time just a couple years ago in the <i>Fall of the Mutants</i> hardcover collection, and I literally recall nothing about the issue. Though I barely recall the Power Pack story, either. So make of that what you will.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-24647839372096385552014-03-14T14:18:39.087-05:002014-03-14T14:18:39.087-05:00"though he will continue to struggle with the..."though he will continue to struggle with the changes wrought on him by Apocalypse for years to come."<br /><br />Which continues decently into the early 90s until horribly mangled by Scot Lobdell.<br /><br />"Cyclops notes that the city has other champions, which will be seen in the Daredevil & Power Pack tie-in issues."<br /><br />You mean the Avengers (minus Captain America) and the Fantastic Four, sitting in their respective headquarters twiddling their thumbs while being held in reserve? ;)<br /><br />FYI, the DD issue is pretty good, though from past comments, not sure how many people would appreciate it, since I do think it's written by Ann Nocenti.<br /><br />"It's an approach that helps set Apocalypse apart from other X-baddies, and something that eventually gets lost when the character embraces the more traditional "you're weak because you disagree with me" routine."<br /><br />I miss this version of Apocalypse. Much more interesting that what we got in the 90s.<br /><br />Overall, this is a solid, strong issue. Whatever you may think of Wheezie's scripting, her plot work is solid and really ties up much of the long running plot threads she began weaving when she started writing this title. And ties them up rather effectively. I do think her post-FOTM stuff isn't quite as strong; it does seem to meander at times since there doesn't seem to be a long term plan like there was here. Will be interesting to see if this true through your reviews.<br /><br />Also, Walt S produces some solid work here. It's not as good or inspired as his work on Thor, but it's a damn good looking issue.wwk5dnoreply@blogger.com