tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post6499950580101860930..comments2024-03-22T04:20:11.870-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining Havok & Wolverine: Meltdown #1-4Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-30686085310814922292014-10-17T11:12:45.408-05:002014-10-17T11:12:45.408-05:00@Teemu: Hmmh, I tried looking up for press release...@Teemu: <i>Hmmh, I tried looking up for press releases on the launch of the title, but can only find the Marvel.com SDCC2014 interview of the creators, where no specific female-friendliness angle is brought up in any way.</i><br /><br />Yeah, I tried to find a source to cite as well, but everything I found is just about the "controversy" now. <br /><br />I could be wrong about the stated intent, but, as you did, I'd still argue that a female-led series isn't maybe the best place to deploy cheesecake art; even if the overt intention to appeal to woman isn't there, one would assume a title starring a female character would intuitively do so, at least to some degree. <br /><br /><i>As a comic book geek I am somewhat offended myself for the implication that one alternative cover, no matter how unfortunate, could in any way take anything away from a character who is a) awesome, b) even more awesome for the fact that she only came to existence because of trademark reasons practically overnight, and c) blatantly refused to go away despite the constant writer turnover in her original title and perhaps the most definitely throughout death among all the comic book deaths. </i><br /><br />I certainly don't think one such cover, this or any other, does any damage to the character. I think it just damages the likelihood that a female reader will pick up the book. <br /><br />"Oh, maybe I'll try this new Spider-Woman series" [pick ups book, sees cover] "Ugh, nevermind, this is the same hyper-sexualized boys fantasy as everything else. Nevermind." That sort of thing. <br /><br />@Jason: <i>Painted-Havok looks a bit like that actor who played Hollis Mason in the Watchmen film. Or is that just me?</i><br /><br />I didn't think of that, but now that you mention it, I can see it. <br /><br />Occasionally, he struck me as looking a little James Dean-esque. <br /><br />@Blam: <i> And I feel like I've been going overboard in pointing out what are pretty obvious references lately. </i><br /><br />It's certainly appreciated, as occasionally I *do* miss them, or fail calling them out. Sometimes I intentionally leave out what I feel are the more obvious ones (or the ones, like here, that the story itself seems to call out) which, granted, is a dangerous line to walk. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-65178663862993579472014-10-13T14:50:47.884-05:002014-10-13T14:50:47.884-05:00Blam: " And I feel like I've been going o...Blam: " And I feel like I've been going overboard in pointing out what are pretty obvious references lately."<br /><br />My personal golden standard in this regard is the Finnish early 20th c. translation for John Milton's <i>Paradise Lost</i>. There's a scene where a demon, Azazel is memory serves correct, taunts his fellow demons and our good translator had seen it fit to add a footnote into one of his sentences there: "This here might be humor." I think you're doing fine, Blam.<br /><br />(Captcha for this post of mine about some upside down behavior of Satan's pal on a Marvel-related blog: "916". Well.)Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-63630821662179858732014-10-09T16:02:03.978-05:002014-10-09T16:02:03.978-05:00@Anonymous: // Note that Havok didn't bury Log...<br>@Anonymous: <i>// Note that Havok didn't bury Logan too deep, and wasn't surprised when Logan showed up alive, so he probably held back deliberately to trick anyone that was watching. //</i><br /><br />Scarlett tells Havok, "The grave seems awfully shallow," which is almost surely the Simonsons telegraphing Havok's intentions, and Wolverine's thought balloons when he awakes reveal that Havok nearly burned the flesh off Logan's bones "but he held back just enough". <br /><br />@Teebore: <i>// I *think* ... someone points out that Neutron is quoting Stoker //</i><br /><br />You're right. And I feel like I've been going overboard in pointing out what are pretty obvious references lately. Maybe we can chalk it up to my thinking ahead towards a collected edition for posterity as I slowly move forward with similar-ish projects of my own, almost certainly making <i>waaaaay</i> more notes than I need to in my typical fashion as I figure out the shape of it all.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-75745736750622111572014-10-09T04:13:32.714-05:002014-10-09T04:13:32.714-05:00"Wolverine is able to detect from Havok's..."Wolverine is able to detect from Havok's scent that his heart was racing. Not sure how much sense that makes."<br /><br />This was my big beef with the story. Wolverine's practically telepathic in this comic, just pinpointing Havok's exact mental state during every moment of the story despite not being anywhere near him.<br /><br />Apart from that, though, I dig it a lot. Good artwork, and I enjoy the dialogue throughout, even though I usually am not a fan of Weezie's word-balloons. (Maybe this is Walt's influence.) <br /><br />Painted-Havok looks a bit like that actor who played Hollis Mason in the Watchmen film. Or is that just me?Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-30371231691179120432014-10-09T00:33:27.745-05:002014-10-09T00:33:27.745-05:00Teebore: Marvel was specifically making a big deal...Teebore: <i>Marvel was specifically making a big deal out of the new Spider-Woman series being female friendly, marketing it as a series geared towards women, that female fans specifically could pick up and enjoy.</i><br /><br />Hmmh, I tried looking up for press releases on the launch of the title, but can only find the Marvel.com SDCC2014 interview of the creators, where no specific female-friendliness angle is brought up in any way. Judging by the comments the choice of Greg "traces porn" Land for the artist seems to be derided from the get-go. So, just to be fair, is that something <i>Marvel</i> actually did or is it rather something the critics came up with later on?<br /><br />Of course, a female-led title should be female-friendly by definition and certainly not female-<i>un</i>friendly, and I'm told the previous Spider-Woman titles have been female-friendly so it is a fair expectation anyway.<br /><br />As a comic book geek I am somewhat offended myself for the implication that one alternative cover, no matter how unfortunate, could in any way take anything away from a character who is a) awesome, b) even more awesome for the fact that she only came to existence because of trademark reasons practically overnight, and c) blatantly refused to go away despite the constant writer turnover in her original title and perhaps the most definitely throughout death among all the comic book deaths.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-86993259135333388002014-10-08T15:29:20.925-05:002014-10-08T15:29:20.925-05:00@Anonymous: Forget them knowing Havok was still al...@Anonymous: <i>Forget them knowing Havok was still alive for a second- the real question is how did they FIND Havok? The dialogue suggests that Alex has never been to that part of Mexico, so how did they know he'd be there?</i><br /><br />Yeah, there's definitely a bit of "because plot" at work here, both in terms of the villains knowing Havok is alive and in knowing where he is, specifically, when the story starts. <br /><br />@Matt: <i>Nowadays, it would just be a regular mainstream comic, Wolverine snikt-ing through that guy's eyes and all.</i><br /><br />Yeah, I get that Marvel (and DC, especially) have more or less accepted that the majority of their regular customers are adults, but that doesn't mean they should give up. There's definitely a place for a story like this (and those specific actions), but there's also nothing wrong with having a place for stories that avoid that kind of thing too. <br /><br />@Blam: <i>Buccellato. I presume autocorrect has spilled the beans on a new genetics firm you're starting up. </i><br /><br />Heh, thanks. I've updated it. That was either autocorrect, or me copying/pasting poorly. <br /><br /><i>My one quibble with the story would be how tremendously well Havok seems to be able to control his power </i><br /><br />That's a good point. <br /><br /><i>Not sure if this qualifies as a notable reference, but "Enter freely and of your own will," first used by Neutron in #2 and repeated by him at the end of #4, is a quote from Bram Stoker's </i>Dracula.<br /><br />I *think* it gets called out as such in the story (that is, someone points out that Neutron is quoting Stoker), which is why I didn't mention it. Then again, I may just be imagining that, in which case I should have called out the reference. <br /><br /><i> I have no idea if that plays into her later appearance or not. </i><br /><br />Nor do I, frankly. It's been a long time since I read the issues she returns in, and having not read <i>Meltdown</i> at the time, her significance was largely lost on me. But I definitely agree with your interpretation that there's more to the character, and that the (non)reveal of the new superintendent seemed to be setting *something* up. <br /><br />@Matt: <i>That was was the dumbest controversy I've ever seen. There's nothing wrong with some comic book cheesecake now and then, and I can't believe they canceled future Manara covers over it.</i><br /><br />I agree there's nothing wrong with the occasional cheesecake art (though I question if that really counts as traditional cheesecake, unless we just assume cheesecake=titillating/porn-tastic, and I'd feel a lot better about it if comic art in general was more equal opportunity when it came to cheesecake) and that it's dumb to cancel all future art from the artist as well (because there's definitely a place for his work). <br /><br />But I will say the thing that bugged me about this particular "controversy", and the thing that I think got lost as the argument quickly devolved into a "there's nothing wrong with sexy lady art! How dare you criticize my sexy lady art!" kind of thing, is that Marvel was specifically making a big deal out of the new Spider-Woman series being female friendly, marketing it as a series geared towards women, that female fans specifically could pick up and enjoy. And then they slapped a cover on it that was clearly designed to appeal, first and foremost, to straight men. It's that disconnect, trying to bring in women with one hand without realizing (or caring) they were driving them away with the other, that bugged me and, I think, at least some of the people that started the whole hubbub, which, as is usual with the internet, quickly became a much bigger deal than it needed to be. <br /><br />Or, to put it more succinctly: yes, there is definitely a place for female cheesecake art in comics. I just question whether that place includes a comic that is being specifically targeted towards women. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-41478280102531287842014-10-08T09:02:21.780-05:002014-10-08T09:02:21.780-05:00Oh, yes... I've learned that Angela, of 90'...Oh, yes... I've learned that Angela, of 90's Spawn fame, has recently been brought over to Marvel to a comics title of which a very popular movie has just been made. I'll bet some creators are just looking for to be sued over her ass.<br /><br />I loved how one vocal point of criticism was brought by the usage of a 3-D model over the unnatural and impossible pose of Jessie... I guess someone skipped reading her powers description.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-41523479852445437382014-10-07T18:23:58.031-05:002014-10-07T18:23:58.031-05:00Teemu -- "I mean diversification they may fee...Teemu -- "<b>I mean diversification they may feel the need to throw in a Manara-drawn Spider-Woman's ass every now and then just to keep the core audience in.</b>"<br /><br />That was was the dumbest controversy I've ever seen. There's nothing wrong with some comic book cheesecake now and then, and I can't believe they canceled future Manara covers over it. Funnily, given your comment, my exact response when I learned people were up in arms over the thing was that the picture was no worse than the comics I grew up with in the nineties, and it was better drawn and more tasteful than a lot of them, to boot.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-82501539364555425492014-10-07T09:42:12.788-05:002014-10-07T09:42:12.788-05:00Oh, darn. So it was. Thanks, wwk5d.
It should be ...Oh, darn. So it was. Thanks, wwk5d.<br /><br />It should be obvious but I say it anyway: it was the darned Shatterstar that got me confused. The one with a blade on his blade, who doesn't like gladiator films if Liefeld ever again gets to have any say on the matter.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-55787031843383972282014-10-07T08:14:02.707-05:002014-10-07T08:14:02.707-05:00Er, McFarlane. Er, McFarlane. wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-90361556360866054282014-10-07T08:11:38.218-05:002014-10-07T08:11:38.218-05:00Actually, that story regarding Shatterstar was abo...Actually, that story regarding Shatterstar was about MacFarlane...<br /><br />http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2014/08/01/comic-book-legends-revealed-482/wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-63962670208894107072014-10-07T00:33:19.775-05:002014-10-07T00:33:19.775-05:00Haven't read it so I imagine Doc Neutron to be...Haven't read it so I imagine Doc Neutron to be something between Dr Manhattan, the more renown nuclear physicist of the late 80's, and Mr. Neutron, the superheroesque alien from a fourth season episode of Monty Python's Flying Circus, but from the KGB.<br /><br />Regarding Matt's "mature audiences" pointer, if this sort of "mature" approach goes for the mainstream comics nowadays it has a hint of them considering the supposed "big tits & bigger guns" fanboys of the early nineties who have now grown up, to an extent, to be the main target audience nowadays. No wonder then if amidst female Thor, Muslim girl Ms. Marvel and all the other audience gaug... I mean diversification they may feel the need to throw in a Manara-drawn Spider-Woman's ass every now and then just to keep the core audience in.<br /><br />It's chuckleworthy because I'm told one of the definite moments causing Liefeld to ditch the company was him not being allowed to have Shatterstar graphically stab Juggernaut into the eye on-panel.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-80322397595100613982014-10-06T16:28:22.607-05:002014-10-06T16:28:22.607-05:00// Steve Bioccelate //
Buccellato. I presume auto...<br><i>// Steve Bioccelate //</i><br /><br />Buccellato. I presume autocorrect has spilled the beans on a new genetics firm you're starting up. 8^)<br /><br /><i>// </i>Meltdown<i> is pretty much the same story only, you know, better //</i><br /><br />No kidding.<br /><br /><i>// Of course, </i>Meltdown<i> also features absolutely gorgeous, fully painted art. //</i><br /><br />Absolutely. I respect what Williams is doing with his slightly more abstract sequences, Logan's slicked back locks and Popeye-style physique included, although I think I prefer Muth's material. Really lovely stuff.<br /><br />So yet another redhead seduces a Summers brother, complete with black dress as plot point. While I confess that I don't see any reason for the hair color, and naming her Scarlett feels a little on-the-nose, it's easy enough to chalk that all up to cosmic irony, fate, or what-have-you.<br /><br />My one quibble with the story would be how tremendously well Havok seems to be able to control his power — Quark/Scarlett is able to light a cigarette against his charged-up hand, and he touches the ground to send out "plasma tendrils" — which I wouldn't have any problem with if it weren't belied by concurrent issues of <i>X-Men</i>. <br /><br />My <i>two</i> quibble with the story would be how Alex has a wad of cash and, later, his Havok costume on him when he's on the lam with what sure looks like only the clothes on his back, particularly given his kidnapping and <i>faux</i> hospital stay at the Russians' hands in Mexico. <br /><br />My three quibble would be that Alex's hair is brown for about the first half of the series. <br /><br />Not sure if this qualifies as a notable reference, but "Enter freely and of your own will," first used by Neutron in #2 and repeated by him at the end of #4, is a quote from Bram Stoker's <i>Dracula</i>; meanwhile, the KGB facility in Poland is likened to Dracula's castle in #3.<br /><br />Meltdown, Dr. Neutron, and Quark are codenames at odds with the dark, comparatively real-world texture of the piece, yet somehow they work for me. I find myself curious about the way Neutron describes Quark as losing herself to the Scarlett persona she's using, and taking that with how Meltdown's thought balloons compliment her on the way he feels she's inciting Alex to unleash a full blast on him by forcing him to seemingly atomize her right before Alex's eyes, well, I have to wonder if maybe Meltdown didn't actually kill her. We can read the scene as Scarlett committing totally to the plan as Meltdown believes or, as I think her dialogue suggests, her reneging on the plan and sacrificing herself to buy Alex time to escape, but Meltdown praising her without a hint of eulogy colors how I took the final page. Neutron welcomes a new female superintendent to the asylum, one whose face is conspicuously unrevealed, and my mind immediately went to suspecting it was another incarnation of Quark, one whom Meltdown knew could/would be activated after he fried her predecessor. I have no idea if that plays into her later appearance or not. Just throwin' it out there.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-71208815577790247282014-10-06T14:51:36.182-05:002014-10-06T14:51:36.182-05:00In a way, this series illustrates what I find to b...In a way, this series illustrates what I find to be the problem with modern comics. MELTDOWN was published under Epic for "mature audiences". In the late nineties, it might've been published under Marvel Knights for "mature audiences".<br /><br />Nowadays, it would just be a regular mainstream comic, Wolverine <i>snikt</i>-ing through that guy's eyes and all.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-86936829561016557862014-10-03T17:46:22.433-05:002014-10-03T17:46:22.433-05:00I think this is also one of the first times we see...<i>I think this is also one of the first times we see Marvel characters using words like bitch and bastard, no?</i><br /><br />ELEKTRA: ASSASSIN predated this by a couple of years. That had some colorful language in it as I recall.Cerebronoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-36513551006701987042014-10-03T17:01:55.354-05:002014-10-03T17:01:55.354-05:00"Havok appears only as a "ghostly haze&q..."Havok appears only as a "ghostly haze" on Scarlett's medical equipment, though it's never established how Meltdown and Neutron know Wolverine and Havok are still alive."<br />Forget them knowing Havok was still alive for a second- the real question is how did they FIND Havok? The dialogue suggests that Alex has never been to that part of Mexico, so how did they know he'd be there?<br />"Havok believes that he can kill Wolverine with a full power blast, but he's ultimately proved wrong."<br />Note that Havok didn't bury Logan too deep, and wasn't surprised when Logan showed up alive, so he probably held back deliberately to trick anyone that was watching.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-5842274883254176962014-10-03T15:33:22.967-05:002014-10-03T15:33:22.967-05:00@wwk5d: I think this is also one of the first tim...@wwk5d: <i> I think this is also one of the first times we see Marvel characters using words like bitch and bastard, no?</i><br /><br />One of the first times, I'd think. Though I can't say for certain. <br /><br /><i>One thing though...if it's a painted project, how is there an inker listed in the credits?</i><br /><br />...cuz I forgot to remove the inker from my template...<br /><br />It's been corrected. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-72829969613215235972014-10-03T15:29:55.631-05:002014-10-03T15:29:55.631-05:00One thing though...if it's a painted project, ...One thing though...if it's a painted project, how is there an inker listed in the credits?wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-83305488319748114182014-10-03T15:26:28.911-05:002014-10-03T15:26:28.911-05:00Definitely worth checking out. The story moves alo...Definitely worth checking out. The story moves along nicely, the art as you say is gorgeous, and the Simonsons do a good keeping the characters "on model" as far as they are written. <br /><br />And the darker tone fits the story well. I think this is also one of the first times we see Marvel characters using words like bitch and bastard, no?wwk5dnoreply@blogger.com