tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post6426487697518430649..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining Fantastic Four vs. the X-Men #1-4Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-67224963411335068562022-07-14T14:08:27.739-05:002022-07-14T14:08:27.739-05:00I believe the reference is to John Byrne's sto...I believe the reference is to John Byrne's story in <i>Fantastic Four</i> #285 of a kid setting himself on fire to be like the Human Torch.Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-74311472941337522872022-07-13T20:07:22.521-05:002022-07-13T20:07:22.521-05:00What number one fan incident?What number one fan incident?Jaymes Buckmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02984054442303912514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-86424928509057269922017-02-11T12:36:05.229-06:002017-02-11T12:36:05.229-06:00I find this to be one of the better issues of the ...I find this to be one of the better issues of the X-Men interacting with the greater Marvel U. <br /><br />I don't know why people had a problem with Claremont's handling of Dr. Doom in the three-part story with Arcade, but here Doom is the perfect balance of gentleman and menace, offering to help the X-Men, a noble act, purely out of spite for Reed Richards (which fits in perfectly with his character thus far).<br /><br />Psylocke gets a lot to do here too, I'd argue more than any other X-Man in the book. She psychically holds Kitty's consciousness together, talks her down from the ledge when she wants to kill herself (in a BEAUTIFUL panel that has to be seen to be believed), and even gives Kitty and Franklin the chance to talk to each other while Franklin visits her -- previously, the contact was only one-way.<br /><br />Most of Claremont's work with Psylocke seems to deal in hardening her, shaping her into more of a warrior, a weapon. Here we get to see a very different Psylocke -- a supportive, caring figure, who can still fight (evidenced by her one-shotting the Human Torch in the X-Men's first battle with the FF), but also possesses the capactiy to heal with her powers. It's a good look at a different dimension of her power and persona, one that I feel sadly gets lost in later Psylocke stories.Ingonyamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17767964255684263275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-11987416089567449112014-01-27T12:56:37.531-06:002014-01-27T12:56:37.531-06:00@Mike: he looks on the Thing's face convey his...@Mike: <i>he looks on the Thing's face convey his emotions clearly without making him look ridiculous. Johnny's self-loathing, Reed's weariness, She-Hulk's attitude... near Kevin Maguire or Steve Dillon caliber faces.</i><br /><br />The facial work in this is quite impressive. <br /><br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-81313415922399331252014-01-23T07:28:54.487-06:002014-01-23T07:28:54.487-06:00I'm with Jason. Of course Mr. Fantastic would ...<br>I'm with Jason. Of course Mr. Fantastic would be the best hand-puppet dad ever — no props required.<br /><br />@angmc43: <i>// I feel it appropriate to bring up some of the FF's issues //</i><br /><br />Well, I can't add much to all that except to say that a lot of this was in my mind too as I finally read the mini for the first time and thought back to the early stories — their intro/origin most particularly — in which the FF really wore on their (non-costumed) sleeves the fact that they ere superhero-group take on the Lee/Kirby <i>et al.</i> monster comics of the Atlas era. Thing's cosmic-ray mutation is so apparent and, usually, irreversible that he gets the brunt of the attention in terms of how the spaceflight made them freaks, of course, but there certainly were other consequences. Just as they were a precursor to the X-Men at Marvel, and the FF themselves were a superpowered version of the "dedicated team" concept seen in Kirby's Challengers of the Unknown, the Doom Patrol (infamously debuting nearly simultaneously with the X-Men) was Arnold Drake's attempt at doing a misanthropic Marvel-style squad at DC, an oddball makeshift family of adventurers whom fate had given unique abilities with one hand while taking away their ability to live a normal life with the other. <br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-26739448027555752992014-01-19T06:11:30.285-06:002014-01-19T06:11:30.285-06:00Oh come on! Give it a chance! You'd have Selen...Oh come on! Give it a chance! You'd have Selene mind-controlling Temptress, who is turn is mind-controlling both Jean and Callisto.wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-74767141276597225722014-01-19T03:17:45.945-06:002014-01-19T03:17:45.945-06:00@wwk5d: With people with hentai tentacles for arms...@wwk5d: <i>With people with hentai tentacles for arms behind her dancing in the background...</i><br /><br />Urgh... no. That would be a thing undreamed of.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-53739524385020174562014-01-18T15:10:16.732-06:002014-01-18T15:10:16.732-06:00This was one of the first X-Men comics I ever boug...This was one of the first X-Men comics I ever bought, and probably the first FF comic I ever bought. I have a huge soft spot for it. <br /><br />First, in addition to being Jon Bogdanove's finest hour the art is my favorite non-Byrne Terry Austin ink job. The anatomy is solid and the facial expressions are very well-done. The looks on the Thing's face convey his emotions clearly without making him look ridiculous. Johnny's self-loathing, Reed's weariness, She-Hulk's attitude... near Kevin Maguire or Steve Dillon caliber faces. The action flowed nicely, and certain panels (including the She-Hulk/Storm confrontation and the Thing rescuing the child from the fire) were impressively rendered.<br /><br />Claremont did a great job handling the FF. I didn't get into his '90s FF work, but I thought the conflict and resolution were believable. Less believable is Doom hosting dinner or helping because Franklin shamed him into it, but the Sue/ Doom confrontation at the end was awesome. <br /><br />Somewhat startling was the fact that Rogue, Sue, and (seemingly) Kitty all end up naked over the course of the series. Come on Chris and Jon, no need to show me what goes through your minds when you work with these characters...<br /><br />- Mike LoughlinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-47706204042903564582014-01-18T13:56:40.069-06:002014-01-18T13:56:40.069-06:00@Teemu: I hazarded to go read the Claremont Mind C...@Teemu:<i> I hazarded to go read the Claremont Mind Control Central blog and now I see disturbing things everywhere and Selen holding people on chain leashes every time I close my eyes.</i><br /><br />Ha! Yeah, there's definitely some fun and interesting posts on that blog, but I have to read them in small doses...Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-52750397828979693272014-01-18T12:35:40.118-06:002014-01-18T12:35:40.118-06:00"Selene holding people on chain leashes every..."Selene holding people on chain leashes every time I close my eyes"<br /><br />With people with hentai tentacles for arms behind her dancing in the background...wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-86640320851956719232014-01-18T11:51:15.821-06:002014-01-18T11:51:15.821-06:00@Teebore: Wow, I had not ever made that connection...@Teebore: Wow, I had not ever made that connection before. Yeesh.<br /><br />I fell ya. Just two weeks back the comics were a cherished part of my innocent childhood to me but then I hazarded to go read the Claremont Mind Control Central blog and now I see disturbing things everywhere and Selen holding people on chain leashes every time I close my eyes.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-59923431494949452262014-01-18T11:08:35.007-06:002014-01-18T11:08:35.007-06:00@Teemu: Poor old A 76, he never was a combat unit....@Teemu: <i>Poor old A 76, he never was a combat unit. Lover, not a warrior.</i><br /><br />Ha!<br /><br /><i>The one where Victor von Byrne lays his hand on the shoulder of shocked young "Kristoff", which is Latverian for 'Christopher'.</i><br /><br />Wow, I had not ever made that connection before. Yeesh. <br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-86232592479918233902014-01-18T06:14:14.946-06:002014-01-18T06:14:14.946-06:00@wwk5d Well, technically, it was a Doombot that fe...@wwk5d <i>Well, technically, it was a Doombot that fell for Storm. Yes, she's that desirable that even robots get crushes on her ;)</i><br /><br />Poor old A 76, he never was a combat unit. Lover, not a warrior.<br /><br />Has anyone btw ever noted the panel following the famed bot destruction scene, often omitted in net scans because it's on other page, meta-message-wise? The one where Victor von Byrne lays his hand on the shoulder of shocked young "Kristoff", which is Latverian for 'Christopher'.<br /><br />"Remember that, Kristoff. It is an important lesson."<br /><br />... which is terrible, because upon us first meeting Kristoff in Oct '82, Byrne has his mom killed.<br />Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-86079359851488698232014-01-17T11:29:23.463-06:002014-01-17T11:29:23.463-06:00@entzauberung: If nothing else, whenever Reed can&...@entzauberung: <i>If nothing else, whenever Reed can't be bothered to tell the truth or is just flat out lying to his teammates ... someone should say "Remember that journal we found...we didn't 100% establish it WASN'T Reed, right?"</i><br /><br />Ha! Too true. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-22797423276212445772014-01-17T05:45:01.342-06:002014-01-17T05:45:01.342-06:00If nothing else, whenever Reed can't be bother...If nothing else, whenever Reed can't be bothered to tell the truth or is just flat out lying to his teammates (and he's done that a bunch of times for the past 25 years), someone should say "Remember that journal we found...we didn't 100% establish it WASN'T Reed, right?"entzauberungnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-60827545617016495562014-01-16T16:40:49.385-06:002014-01-16T16:40:49.385-06:00@Jeff: But then again, I guess Kitty's "...@Jeff: <i> But then again, I guess Kitty's "X-Men" storyline really is over at this point, at least until she joins the team again in issue 360 or so. </i><br /><br />Yeah, it's easy to still think of Kitty as "belonging" to <i>X-Men</i>, but it'll be a long time before that series is at all concerned with her again. <br /><br />@FuryofFirestorm: <i>since one of Lockheed's abilities is immunity from telepathy (even Prof. X couldn't read his mind), perhaps he is also able to physically interact with psychic projections?</i><br /><br />That could be. <br /><br />@Teemu: <i>In a nice visual easter egg, the box from where Sue finds the diary is the same box that was last seen in a major Hollywood blockbuster movie carted into a massive warehouse holding a powerful artifact inside, to be researched by "top men". </i><br /><br />Ha! I'd never noticed that before. "Top Men" indeed...<br /><br /> @Jason: <i>Saggy Baggy Elephant is adorable, you heartless monster.</i><br /><br />Ha! I don't *hate* Saggy Baggy Elephant, I just didn't feel compelled to point it out. <br /><br />@entzauberung: <i>But I agree with Ben, the journal being true makes a whole lot of sense.</i><br /><br />True story: the first time I read this series (many, many years ago) I somehow missed the (not at all) subtle hints that Doom planted the journal, and finished the series believing Reed had intended for the FF to get their powers and lied about it, a development I thought made sense and was interesting for the way it complicated the FF's relationship. Of course, I was also a little surprised that a revelation like that occurred in an ancillary series and not the main FF book. <br /><br />...I was a pretty dumb kid, apparently. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-75161258869672179882014-01-16T14:31:51.429-06:002014-01-16T14:31:51.429-06:00"and ultimately Dr. Doom is pegged for having..."and ultimately Dr. Doom is pegged for having fabricated the journal in an attempt to sow dissent among the FF."<br /><br />Of course, this is how it had to end.<br /><br />But I agree with Ben, the journal being true makes a whole lot of sense.entzauberungnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-72933246450045328242014-01-16T11:24:06.476-06:002014-01-16T11:24:06.476-06:00Saggy Baggy Elephant is adorable, you heartless mo...Saggy Baggy Elephant is adorable, you heartless monster.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-52732412013246448062014-01-15T23:50:21.957-06:002014-01-15T23:50:21.957-06:00In a nice visual easter egg, the box from where Su...In a nice visual easter egg, the box from where Sue finds the diary is the same box that was last seen in a major Hollywood blockbuster movie carted into a massive warehouse holding a powerful artifact inside, to be researched by "top men". Jugding by the box being now found from the Fantastic Four premises, I think we have found out who was the "top man" they talked about...<br /><br />(TOP SECRET<br />ARMY INTEL. #9906753<br />DO NOT OPEN!, if you have to google...)<br />Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-45516382855323918242014-01-15T19:32:38.364-06:002014-01-15T19:32:38.364-06:00@Lockheed being able to lick Franklin's astral...@Lockheed being able to lick Franklin's astral form - since one of Lockheed's abilities is immunity from telepathy (even Prof. X couldn't read his mind), perhaps he is also able to physically interact with psychic projections?FuryOfFirestormhttp://furyoffirestorm.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-92169305210107172782014-01-15T18:32:15.155-06:002014-01-15T18:32:15.155-06:00I have to say, I'm not a fan of throwing major...I have to say, I'm not a fan of throwing major plot points (Kitty's healing) into a team up miniseries that barely fits into continuity. But then again, I guess Kitty's "X-Men" storyline really is over at this point, at least until she joins the team again in issue 360 or so. <br /><br />I'm actually a pretty big fan of Claremont's Fantastic Four run in the late 90s. I thought it had some pretty fun ideas and I agree that he seems to have a pretty good handle on the characters.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14447265712189987074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-78374288264874956502014-01-15T17:18:53.630-06:002014-01-15T17:18:53.630-06:00@angmc43: I feel it appropriate to bring up some o...@angmc43: <i>I feel it appropriate to bring up some of the FF's issues about the 'Reed' Journal</i><br /><br />As our resident FF expert, I'd hoped (and am glad) you did. <br /><br /><i>However, despite being in the FF again, it took a long time before he called Reed his best friend again. In this case, his acceptance of Reed in this LS appears a little OOC.</i><br /><br />Ah, I was familiar with most of the broadstrokes of Thing's comings and goings during the Byrne and immediately-post Byrne issues, but never knew that things were still relatively rocky (pun intended) between Reed and Ben at this point. <br /><br /><i>I think this might be She-Hulk's final adventure with the FF, with her rejoining the Avengers.</i><br /><br />I'm not exactly sure where this falls in her personal chronology, but I think she's already rejoined the Avengers at this point - she joined up relatively quickly after "Under Siege", and that story was roughly contemporaneous to "Mutant Massacre". <br /><br />@Anonymous: <i>No mention of the series' most important contribution to comics lore, the introduction of "Saggy Baggy Elephant"?</i><br /><br />Ha! No, that particular element was perhaps just a smidge too twee for my tastes. :) Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-16245985428427535152014-01-15T16:24:51.599-06:002014-01-15T16:24:51.599-06:00No mention of the series' most important contr...No mention of the series' most important contribution to comics lore, the introduction of "Saggy Baggy Elephant"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-86142405613332511442014-01-15T14:46:19.934-06:002014-01-15T14:46:19.934-06:00So Ben decided to stay on Battleworld, asking She-...So Ben decided to stay on Battleworld, asking She-Hulk to replace him in the Fantastic Four on their return. This vacation reached its climax when Ben the Human and Ben the Thing somehow became two separate beings. The two fought, ending with Ben the Thing killing his human form! This convinced Ben that he was permanently the Thing. He returned to Earth, intent on telling Alicia that it is really over between the two of them. At Alicia’s apartment, who should answer the door but a shirtless Johnny Storm! After a battle royale, Ben got talked down by Alicia, who convinced him that she and Johnny were in a serious relationship. Ben’s pride was hurt: for one thing, he felt his thunder was stolen. He wanted the role of breaker-upper only to find out Alicia already took that role. Plus, it is possible to assume that when Ben wanted to free Alicia from their relationship, he was kinda hoping she stay celibate for the remainder of her life (Later, Tom DeFalco thought Alicia's actions were a bit trampy of her, so he retconned it that this Alicia (shortly AFTER the FF Beyonder-kidnapping) was a Skrull agent named Lyja). And then, Reed tells Ben the truth about his transformation ability. <br />Ben was heartbroken and betrayed. His best friend- the one whose impatience led to his transformation to a monster- lied to him about this information (which could have avoided what happened to Human Ben in Battleworld). Ben severed all ties from Reed and the Fantastic Four. He drifted, hanging around with the West Coast Avengers and a Wrestling Group (where he met the Beyonder and future girlfriend Sharon Ventura). Eventually, he went to Monster Island and became friends with the Mole Man. Soon, he was visited by his ex-partners in the FF, with Reed wanting to resolve their estrangement. At first loyal to Monster Island and cold to the FF, Ben soon learned some dark truths about his new friend (among them turning Johnny into a freak and planning to destroy the surface world). Ben rejoined the FF again and stopped the Mole Man’s plans. However, despite being in the FF again, it took a long time before he called Reed his best friend again. In this case, his acceptance of Reed in this LS appears a little OOC.<br /><br />I'm surprised Johnny had no problem about becoming the Torch, considering the 'No.1 Fan' incident.<br /><br />I think this might be She-Hulk's final adventure with the FF, with her rejoining the Avengers.<br /><br />Sorry for the long postangmc43@hotmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379700547226493861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-68332739795954235312014-01-15T14:42:11.074-06:002014-01-15T14:42:11.074-06:00Ben’s problem goes deeper. A fundamental part of h...Ben’s problem goes deeper. A fundamental part of his characterization is his self-hatred for being in the form of a monster. This also brought a deep resentment to Reed for causing it to happen. Way back in FF#1, Ben warned Reed about flying their rocket in a dangerous Cosmic Storm, a warning we all know was solid. The one bright spot for Ben was his relationship with blind Alicia Masters, who appeared to actually prefer Ben the Thing over Ben the Human Being. A series of attempts by Reed to restore Ben his human form led to failure or a nasty loophole to the results: Ben gaining rage issues, Ben reverting back to his original Oatmeal form (a design by John Byrne that the artist later regretted and changed, realizing the blocky form was easier to shade). The latest attempt led to Reed realizing a dark secret: Ben had developed the ability to transform from Human to Thing and vice versa. But his fear of losing Alicia’s love because of his human form caused a mind-over-matter block that subconsciously rejected any successful cures. Fearing this truth might be too much for his best friend to handle, Reed decided to keep it secret from Ben.<br />However, things began to change. The recent Annihilus assault on Alicia and a perception that Reed’s present attempts to cure him seemed to be lacking in conviction had led to an epiphany to Ben. Chances were that he might be stuck as a Thing forever, and maybe it was unfair to Alicia that she stay in a relationship that was dangerous (as recent events have shown) and potentially unfulfilling (in the physical-procreation sense). As he came to this conclusion with Alicia, Ben was quickly summoned by Reed and Johnny to join them on an expedition. This expedition led to the three going to the Beyonder’s Battleworld. During this adventure, Ben kept transforming from Thing to human and vice versa. Evidently, realizing the possibility of ending his relationship with Alicia caused Ben's mental blocks to break down, making it easier to transform at will. Ben erroneously believed the dimensional environment was the cause of this ‘new’ power. Reed, still fearful about the effect of the truth (and not knowing about the recent change in his relationship with Alicia), allowed Ben to believe this error.angmc43@hotmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379700547226493861noreply@blogger.com