tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post6351835368373748219..comments2024-03-16T14:43:09.430-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining New Mutants Annual #5Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-45534654651363773862017-03-12T21:34:27.665-05:002017-03-12T21:34:27.665-05:00This issue *is* a mess, but compared to the Niciez...This issue *is* a mess, but compared to the Nicieza-scripted stories that we saw from Liefeld in New Mutants and X-force, the scripting skills of Louise Simonson really shine through. <br /><br />I tend to look back on her dialogue as verbose and expository, but there were a few good lines in here, and compared to the 'realistic' and decompressed superheroes stories of today, this was really fun.<br /><br />What comes from the heart goes to the heart, as they say.Mike-ELhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02840254150021796923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-32348235455761985732014-10-06T16:02:13.869-05:002014-10-06T16:02:13.869-05:00I do have to say I do like that glimpse on Ghaur&#...I do have to say I do like that glimpse on Ghaur's domestic life by Blam. Reminds me of the time when someone at the Bugle suggested Peter should get a beeper and he imagined a scene where he had to excuse himself because of the beeper going off from a battle with Doc Ock who was quite understanding and said he too hated those little things. Fitting the personal life with a career in superheroics or villainy can be demanding.<br /><br />Also note how he left the kids home and thus is seemingly more sensible than the entire X-Factor. He's probably going to play catch with little Flymg (pronounced Phlegm) after he has got all this Atlantis business sorted out firstTeemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-30634204675536152242014-10-06T11:18:35.121-05:002014-10-06T11:18:35.121-05:00We have to remember though that Set is a snake god...We have to remember though that Set is a snake god and your average snake is a cheating deceitful fellow, so maybe that's kind of expected from a true servant. I'll bet had someone gone and honestly killed the entirety of some conquered folks Set would have been less pleased and more like "Dafuq? Are you fucking sstupid or what! Whosss gonna now do all the mining and sstuff!"Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-79675545540702341182014-10-05T23:37:09.698-05:002014-10-05T23:37:09.698-05:00@Teemu: // decimation means literally "remova...<br>@Teemu: <i>// decimation means literally "removal of the tenth" //</i><br /><br />I know. My point was that even under the assumption that Ghaur was using it in what's become the lazy vernacular of "killed/destroyed a lot of" (or even "... most of"; heck, even if he meant "leaving only a tenth" instead of "removal of a tenth") he was being very generous to himself. What he says: "A city is but stone and mortar. It can be rebuilt... but its <i>people</i> have been decimated... and I declare by the blood of the monster that now blackens the water... that our <i>ritual sacrifice</i>" — a sacrifice, remember, that we're told requires "an entire race of people" — "is <i>complete.</i>" After which I figure he called home to check on the kids and his son told him, after swallowing a few green beans and scraping the rest off his plate into the trash, "Dad, I totally ate all my vegetables!"<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-45613020135880324392014-10-05T21:31:47.320-05:002014-10-05T21:31:47.320-05:00Blam: I'll grant that he uses the word "d...Blam: <i>I'll grant that he uses the word "decimated" and we all know that folks rarely mean it literally anymore, but he clearly doesn't believe that everyone was killed</i><br /><br />Technically the word decimation means literally "removal of the tenth", originally meaning the form of punishment in the Roman army where every tenth soldier was killed by the rest of the legion for mutiny or desertions or stuff. If you go and kill <i>everyone</i> in the legion you have done the decimation terribly wrong and in fact committed a "Teutoburg".<br /><br />I find Graur's deviant approach towards maths of the situation appropriate but would like to question if they have commissioned setting up the terms of the ritual to a Roman empire sorceress perhaps.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-88521479705005080282014-10-05T20:16:28.224-05:002014-10-05T20:16:28.224-05:00I'd be surprised if Namorita's face — at l...<br>I'd be surprised if Namorita's face — at <i>least</i> — wasn't redrawn in the Bullpen by one of Romita's Raiders for that cover art. All figures but the background characters, including the inset SURF faces, have a very slightly-earlier-Marvel-house-style look to them in the manner of Ron Frenz.<br /><br />"While Atlantean forces led by Warlord Krang and Attuma the Barbarian battle the Avengers in New York...," reads the inside front cover's preamble. Now that's more like it, although here we are back with the Deviants.<br /><br />Mela described Bird-Boy's look in that illo perfectly. Oy. At least Magik looks surprisingly decent, as Teebore noted. Poor Doug has his belt 'n' pants hiked up past his navel.<br /><br />I swear it looks like Liefeld is still doing his <i>Invasion!</i> homage/parody in the main story, especially on the Giffenesque closeups.<br /><br />SURF is a dippy name (if par for the course in the genre) and the characters themselves are forgettable, but "mutant Atlanteans" is actually a pretty nice idea.<br /><br />I've never been able to completely get past the depiction of surface people — even metahumans, depending on their powers — several fathoms undersea in oxygen masks but no suits, moving about freely as if there was no physical drag due to water resistance and the pressure didn't affect them in the slightest. Unless you can fly and/or have considerable strength, you shouldn't be able to swim easily at all; heck, Rictor and Boom-Boom should probably be unable to breathe that far down if not crushed outright. Not to mention how it would be impossible to see. <br /><br />I also don't buy that the creature could wreak havoc of the sort described on a city of the size that I have previously imagined Atlantis being. Although it's hard to tell from the artwork, my impression while reading was that only several buildings on the outskirts and their inhabitants — perhaps one or two blocks in our terms — were affected. The end of the story tells me otherwise, however.<br /><br />For all the gap-filling hand-waving plotwise that those of you who've read the whole saga say must occur off-panel or between issues, I think it's hilarious that Ghaur surveys the damage wrought by the creature and decides that it fulfills the terms of a ritual that requires, per captions on the first page, "the sacrifice, to Set, of an entire race of people." He basically says "Close enough!", which doesn't seem like it should be his decision since he's the person trying to live up to the terms of the spell. I'll grant that he uses the word "decimated" and we all know that folks rarely mean it literally anymore, but he clearly doesn't believe that everyone was killed and Namorita mentions at the end that the populace has fled because the property damage, and that creature's blood having poisoned the water, made Atlantis uninhabitable. While displacement of a civilization is not a small thing, it ain't genocide.<br /><br />I thought Boom-Boom's vignette was a winner — which given my aversion to her is no small feat — partly for the cute idea but mostly for the really, really choice Bogdanove/Barta art. Fluid, stylish work like that on the series proper would've made it a much different, much more appealing ride the past few years. Pop-culture references abound, by the way, from Rod Serling and the <i>Twilight Zone</i> theme to <i>Leave It to Beaver</i> to a Marie Severin quality in the art for certain sequences, I presume in salute to her <i>Not Brand Ecch</i> days, to Boom-Boom's "That's the ticket!" per Jon Lovitz's Tommy Flanagan of recent <i>Saturday Night Live</i> vintage to the posters in her room featuring Terence Trent D'Arby, <i>Dirty Dancing</i>, and it looks like George Michael.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-59844749010594197022014-10-03T17:34:40.987-05:002014-10-03T17:34:40.987-05:00"...firstly and foremostly I'm on the boa...<i>"...firstly and foremostly I'm on the boat of the Douglas Ramsey Appreciation Society."</i><br /><br />So we are in the same boat! You're so right - if his death had been in service of a better plot, it wouldn't have felt so hacky. I parallel it with the death of Karate Kid in the Legion - he was similarly disliked (in particular, by the artist), but the creators had enough smarts to have him die saving a whole planet & his wife & their teammates instead of a feathery Jar Jar.Melahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05539894845356203447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-80829294202258515312014-10-03T06:02:29.999-05:002014-10-03T06:02:29.999-05:00Mela: And frankly, if you're in the same boat ...Mela: <i>And frankly, if you're in the same boat as me, nothing can possibly ruin Bird-Boy more than his mere existence has.</i><br /><br />Luckily I have totally avoided any exposure expect for the second-hand for Bird-Boy, but firstly and foremostly I'm on the boat of the Douglas Ramsey Appreciation Society. The boy survived being a slave to an Asgårdian Popeye, godsdamnit, that creature had no right to pop in for a pair of issues and get Dougie killed in the meantime.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-44538692922643946022014-10-03T05:42:10.061-05:002014-10-03T05:42:10.061-05:00Mela, Divine... of John Waters' Pink Flamingoe...<i>Mela, Divine... of John Waters' Pink Flamingoes fame? Because you may just have ruined Bird-Boy AND Rob Liefeld for me in one go. Which should be impossible.</i><br /><br />I think it's the winged-out eyeliner Rob gave him more than anything. And frankly, if you're in the same boat as me, nothing can possibly ruin Bird-Boy more than his mere existence has.<br /><br />I've said this before elsewhere, but I do think Liefeld has a good handle on Warlock's cartoonishness. It's probably not what he wanted to draw, but that's the one instance where his tics didn't look out of place & actually fit the character.Melahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05539894845356203447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-87901225049727861772014-10-03T00:13:05.776-05:002014-10-03T00:13:05.776-05:00The sound is heard by the Atlanteans and Warlock
...<i>The sound is heard by the Atlanteans and Warlock</i><br /><br />Ha, I had a flashback there. Back in the day I was relatively new to Marvel and some bigger boys went on and on about the psychedelic awesomeness of "Starlin's Warlock" and I was somewhat confused over that I had pretty much discarded our techno-organic friend as a comedy sidekick and couldn't think of any angle that would justify him having his own series and even less understand that something like that could get actual praise from people more into the scene than I was.<br /><br />Here, and I really should have known better, my first reaction was: "Wasn't he supposed to be dead or something around this time, cocooning up for return only two years later?" Must have been some sort of ripple in the ether, or some scanning wave coming in from the 90's, can't think of why...<br /><br />Was there ever an element in New Mutants' Warlock of being a trademark holder for Marvel for the name, and has anyone heard if there was any hint from the cosmic office to drop the character around this point because they were about to kick a Thanos storyline in and...?Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-13040775928367572502014-10-02T20:08:08.998-05:002014-10-02T20:08:08.998-05:00"It's suggested that Roberto's super ..."It's suggested that Roberto's super strength also gives him the ability to hold his breath longer. Not sure how well that follows."<br />It's established that people like Thor, Hercules, Hulk, etc. can hold their breath longer than a normal person, so apparently super-strength does give you the ability to hold your breath longer in the Marvel Universe.<br />"Simonson could have avoided both problems by just including Dani in the story, have a footnote saying it occurred BEFORE they went off to Asgardand, and it wouldn't have changed things or affected the story much. To be fair, it does make sense for it to take place in-between pages of #87, but still."<br />She didn't even have to include Dani- she could have just thrown in a line about how Dani was sick or babysitting Illyana or whatever.<br />"The rampage on Atlantis makes Ghaur's eventual nuking the kingdom seem overkill (although it does result in a good scene- in WEB OF SPIDER-MAN ANNUAL chapter- of Attuma going into shock over the news that his kingdom is no more. It's an interesting dimension for a character popularly known as a warrior-conqueror)."<br />"Is it just me, or does the Namorita seen on the cover seem like it was drawn by somebody else and photo-shopped on?"<br />Also, note that in Fantastic Four Annual 22, the Thing talks about how the New Mutants and Namortia fought U-Man on Avengers Island. It looks like this issue was redone at the last minute and that's why Atlantis was destroyed twice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-60904546851873047452014-10-02T16:32:43.513-05:002014-10-02T16:32:43.513-05:00Early Liefeld art, yay! Even back then, he seems t...Early Liefeld art, yay! Even back then, he seems to have an aversion to drawing feet. His Birdboy is way off model (and was he really considered a member?). At least his big hair look kind of works in Magma here. Wasn't there also a page of Mirage and Karma in their outfits as well?<br /><br />"and thus, to anyone reading it at the time, it spoils the end of that story."<br /><br />"while the Grand Comics Database places it between pages of New Mutants #87"<br /><br />Simonson could have avoided both problems by just including Dani in the story, have a footnote saying it occurred BEFORE they went off to Asgardand, and it wouldn't have changed things or affected the story much. To be fair, it does make sense for it to take place in-between pages of #87, but still.<br /><br />Is it just me, or does the Namorita seen on the cover seem like it was drawn by somebody else and photo-shopped on?wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-24282976544129263132014-10-02T16:08:32.639-05:002014-10-02T16:08:32.639-05:00Mela, Divine... of John Waters' Pink Flamingoe...Mela, Divine... of John Waters' <i>Pink Flamingoes</i> fame? Because you may just have ruined Bird-Boy AND Rob Liefeld for me in one go. Which should be impossible.<br /><br />A genuine "your devices have limits. I don't." moment for me.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-87348033837092689192014-10-02T15:59:30.646-05:002014-10-02T15:59:30.646-05:00Teebore: only to end up finding the best match in ...Teebore: <i>only to end up finding the best match in Franklin Richards.</i><br /><br />To be fair he is quite a catch. Will be owning an extremely valuable patent portfolio one day, and if John Byrne is to be believed (Days of Future Past, not the FF hippie look) adult him will also be of that timeless Marvel handsomeness of Steve Rogers, Clint Barton, Henry Pym, Donald Blake, Johnny Storm...Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-20552086266026502982014-10-02T15:50:47.976-05:002014-10-02T15:50:47.976-05:00Not much to add to the "what a mess" con...Not much to add to the "what a mess" consensus, but The Rob really made Bird Boy look like Divine crossed with Cruella DeVille & Mr. Sinister. It's kind of amazing.Melahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05539894845356203447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-74460687064116982352014-10-02T15:41:50.256-05:002014-10-02T15:41:50.256-05:00The second SURF appearance is in an Avengers West ...The second SURF appearance is in an Avengers West Coast Annual back-up from 1990. It's a pretty generic story - they attack a SeaWorld-esque park to try and free the killer whales, but get stopped by a small group of Avengers. There's no obvious reason they got used, like Simonson or Liefeld being involved, it's dull annual back-up filler, basically.Little Thin Man Accused in Robberynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-23568436452827631112014-10-02T15:09:03.992-05:002014-10-02T15:09:03.992-05:00@Teemu: apparently Brian Cronin is misplacing the ...@Teemu: <i>apparently Brian Cronin is misplacing the blame, if that's what it is, for the idea on Gruenwald faultily, seeing that Weezie went there first.</i><br /><br />"Rating the hunks" is more my commentary (likely influenced by that AWC annual, which I have read as well) than something the story actually does - it's more about Boom-Boom being disappointed withe dating prospects of her male teammates and then going in search of better men, only to end up finding the best match in Franklin Richards. <br /><br />So I'm willing to defer to Cronin on this one. Besides, it's also possible Gruenwald came up with the idea and mentioned it to Weezie, even if her story was technically published first. <br /><br />@angmc43: <i>I don't think there was ever a back-up for Namorita and SURF in this storyline. </i><br /><br />It might be a later annual I'm thinking of. <br /><br /><i> I presume it adapts Roy Thomas' original Crown story: Destiny's Helmet of Power taking its serpent form, Betty Prentiss, and Naga</i><br /><br />I believe so. I don't remember Betty Prentis, but the Helmet of Power and Naga were there, along with Namor and Barracuda. <br /><br />@Matt: <i>I believe it was conceived with the intention that it didn't have to be read in any strict order</i><br /><br />Interesting. Having not read the entire story from end-to-end (I pity you), I'd always assumed from how poorly the pieces I have read fit together that this one was MORE tightly constructed than "Evolutionary War". But apparently that disconnection came about due to an entirely different goal. <br /><br /> <i>That was an interesting plotline that didn't get a whole lot of exploration, as I recall.</i><br /><br />That could be said about a lot of Pacheco's FF run, unfortunately. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-17271679524364966142014-10-02T13:42:28.817-05:002014-10-02T13:42:28.817-05:00angmc43 -- "There's a lot of off-panel st...angmc43 -- "<b>There's a lot of off-panel stuff in this series</b>..."<br /><br />I noticed that when I (shudder) read the whole thing in the Omnibus a while back. It's like all the various creators thought other books were handling certain plot points, so no one actually presented them. Another reason why "Evolutionary War" worked better. "Atlantis Attacks" is just <b>too</b> free-form (I believe it was conceived with the intention that it didn't have to be read in any strict order).<br /><br />I've always liked Namorita; at least the version from Fabian Nicieza's NEW WARRIORS. I haven't read much else with her. Oh -- except the brief period where she was dating Johnny Storm during Carlos Pacheco's FANTASTIC FOUR run. That was an interesting plotline that didn't get a whole lot of exploration, as I recall.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-73894839337030276552014-10-02T13:36:12.222-05:002014-10-02T13:36:12.222-05:00The rampage on Atlantis makes Ghaur's eventual...The rampage on Atlantis makes Ghaur's eventual nuking the kingdom seem overkill (although it does result in a good scene- in WEB OF SPIDER-MAN ANNUAL chapter- of Attuma going into shock over the news that his kingdom is no more. It's an interesting dimension for a character popularly known as a warrior-conqueror).<br />I don't think there was ever a back-up for Namorita and SURF in this storyline. The next time we see Namorita is in the final FANTASTIC FOUR ANNUAL chapter, where out of nowhere she is presented as Ghaur & Llyra's captive. The capture happening offpanel. <br />There's a lot of off-panel stuff in this series: as your review suggests, there is no scene confirming that a constantly-appearing mysterious Armored person is actually the seemingly-dead Namor in disguise. Scenes of Ghaur capturing several of the Brides is also absent from the printed story. What sloppy continuity! The chapters on the Serpent Crown Saga were better done.<br />Speaking of which, can you tell me what this issue's chapter was: I presume it adapts Roy Thomas' original Crown story: Destiny's Helmet of Power taking its serpent form, Betty Prentiss, and Naga.angmc43@hotmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379700547226493861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-56636730208630130182014-10-02T13:21:37.610-05:002014-10-02T13:21:37.610-05:00The second story in this issue features Boom-Boom ...<i>The second story in this issue features Boom-Boom breaking the fourth wall and interacting with her artist (former Power Pack and future X-Factor penciler), Jon Bogdanove, in a dream, proceeding to rate various men throughout the Marvel Universe in terms of their hunkiness and compatability.</i><br /><br />Oh. She-Hulk and Wasp will do that for male Avengers in WCA Annual 10, also of Atlantis Attacks fame. That story was featured in the "I love Ya But You're Strange" feature of Comic Book Resources, but apparently Brian Cronin is misplacing the blame, if that's what it is, for the idea on Gruenwald faultily, seeing that Weezie went there first.Teemunoreply@blogger.com