tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post5575943349745021983..comments2024-03-16T14:43:09.430-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining "Acts of Vengeance" Part 3Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-30624138017175702552021-06-25T19:36:31.333-05:002021-06-25T19:36:31.333-05:00That of course assumes a reader had actually read ...That of course assumes a reader had actually read both Amazing Spider-Man annual #5 and Solo Avengers #6 and there was a twenty year publication gap between them plus not every Spider-Man reader would have been reading Solo Avengers as well. (The annual didn't get any reprints until 1992 when Marvel Tales ran it to tie in with the return of the parents in the current issues.) IIRC one of the Atlantis Attacks annuals from 1989 included a back-up feature of Spider-Man's top thirty foes with the Red Skull at #30 and made no mention of this.Tim Roll-Pickeringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12589024696145675963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-59753671786576887422020-02-11T18:33:52.593-06:002020-02-11T18:33:52.593-06:00I was 10 years old in 1990, but I read Acts of Ven...I was 10 years old in 1990, but I read Acts of Vengeance 1 or 2 years later, when they were translated to Spanish in Mexico, so I must have been 11 or 12 during the time Todd McFarlane, Erik Larsen and Rob Liefeld got so big. (I did not see Rob's New Mutants or X-Force issues until years later, so I can only speak about Todd and Erik.)<br /><br />I NEVER liked their art. If it is something that appealed to teenagers back then, I was too young to be part of that group, thankfully.<br /><br />I have always loved a more classic style. I still prefer the 80s art style over a lot of the art done today, even though I prefer any art over Todd's or Erik's (or Rob's).<br /><br />To my young mind, their style just made everyone look ridiculous. The faces are all ugly. When you compare them to, say, Sal Buscema's Mary Jane Watson, you can see how much superior and clean Mr. Buscema's art is. And MJ did suffer a lot from the style change. My pre-teen self would not have used these words, but I can now say MJ went from looking beautiful to looking like a cheap whore.<br /><br />I only got to see Rob Liefeld's art when I was an old teenager, but I am confident that I would not have liked it, especially since I think I could have liked Jon Bogdanove's style on the New Mutants, drawing more realistically-age-matching and cute-looking kids, while he drew ugly and angry deformed adults-meant-to-be-teens.Icecypherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17999359003183615788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-30194188223000064452015-03-22T22:35:31.233-05:002015-03-22T22:35:31.233-05:00@Matt: // I would not be surprised if the "of...<br>@Matt: <i>// I would not be surprised if the "official line" was that a change wouldn't happen, while unofficially they were testing the waters for a swap. But everything I've read from DeFalco, Mackie, DeMatteis, etcetera has said that they wanted to do a three-month clone story and then restore Peter as Spider-Man. //</i><br /><br />To an extent that was probably the case. By the time the first <i>Scarlet Spider</i> issue had come out, not only had Ben Reilly been lurking in the background for a spell but the storyline itself had been in the works for even longer — conception to creation to promotion to publication takes quite a bit of time, and in fact on a multiple-month arc you sort-of have them all going on at once, releasing the first part(s) while prepping the next for press and still working on the last. Maybe too whomever was leaking had an agenda in terms of floating a trial balloon or just putting out word to either advance or sabotage a certain potential plot twist.<br /><br />I'm with you on the memory thing.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-1339464698637540372015-03-20T20:02:53.856-05:002015-03-20T20:02:53.856-05:00Weird. I feel like if anyone would know, it should...Weird. I feel like if anyone would know, it should be DeFalco since he was still EiC when the whole thing started, and would therefore be privy to the original plan. But he doesn't always have the best memory, so who knows?<br /><br />Speaking of "Life of Reilly", I remember reading that many years ago, as it came out, and I loved it. There's been an expanded book promised forever, and I'd pick it up right away if it ever came to pass, but it seems to have long since fallen by the wayside. Too bad...!<br /><br />As a side note, why do so many comics pros have such awful memories? I've read so many interviews where the writer in question is asked about something they intended to do, and it seems that nine times out of ten, they can't remember anything about it. Maybe it's because I have an unusually good memory, but I just don't get how this is possible. I understand forgetting something someone <b>else</b> worked on that you may have read, but how do you forget your own plans?Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-65606991153321265252015-03-20T19:35:25.619-05:002015-03-20T19:35:25.619-05:00This was discussed in Glenn Greenberg's "...This was discussed in Glenn Greenberg's "the Life of Reilly" series. Basically Glenn and Mark Bernado made it sound like the original plan was to make Ben the original permanently, while DeFalco made it sound like Ben being revealed to be the original was supposed to be a temporary fakeout.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-23985359944549474052015-03-20T15:24:34.589-05:002015-03-20T15:24:34.589-05:00I always heard that the idea to replace Ben with P...I always heard that the idea to replace Ben with Peter came later in the process, though I would not be surprised if the "official line" was that a change wouldn't happen, while unofficially they were testing the waters for a swap. But everything I've read from DeFalco, Mackie, DeMatteis, etcetera has said that they wanted to do a three-month clone story and then restore Peter as Spider-Man.<br /><br />Personally I've never understood why Marvel didn't just launch a SCARLET SPIDER ongoing series, or even just keep the four Spider-Man books split between Peter and Ben forever. Let Peter be the married Spider-Man with a suburban life and a kid, and let Ben be the single Spider-Man with girl troubles and unsteady employment. It could have worked. Marvel had already had or still had Captain America and USAgent, Thor and Thunderstrike, and Iron Man and War Machine all in action at the same time. Why not Spider-Man and the Scarlet Spider, too?<br /><br />Teemu -- I always appreciated that DeFalco gave Peter that bum leg in SPIDER-GIRL. It kept readers from demanding he put the costume back on. And then, on the very few occasions he did return to action as Spider-Man, it felt momentous but at the same time his injury limited his abilities so he never overshadowed his daughter in her own stories.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-28102413819132666642015-03-20T15:07:22.094-05:002015-03-20T15:07:22.094-05:00Blam: I strongly recall a non-Marvel writer tellin...Blam: <i>I strongly recall a non-Marvel writer telling me off the record when the whole thing started that he'd heard from within the Spider-office the intention was for Ben Reilly to be the real Peter.</i><br /><br />I remember reading the same thing now much later on from some much less confidential source, could be Wikipedia even, or possibly a "Comic Book Legends Revealed" thingy. Though I don't get the rationale, I don't remember there being an "unless you're a clone" sub-section in the ol' "with great power..." adage that would enable Petey retiring. Surely they could play a tag-team or something, with a decoy-Spider-Man and a 'punches your lights out from behind' -Spider-Man. I can't see it being a "No Homers" club.<br /><br /><i>a way to jettison what many perceived as a very non-Spidey status quo where he's a successful photographer married to a supermodel.</i><br /><br />I had never problem with that really. It's an allegory; one day you're an insecure teen boy with all the associated trimmings but eventually you grow to be a contributing member for the society, get a girlfriend, a wife who's supermodeley enough for you.<br /><br />If we want to talk about non-Spidey status quo, Peter Parker not heeding the great responsibility that comes with a great power in favor for a happy ending would be one. For the May Parker Spider-Girl universe they at least had the courtesy of making him like <i>really</i> injured and powerless.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-54282183348957263522015-03-20T08:54:50.036-05:002015-03-20T08:54:50.036-05:00@Matt: // according to all the writers of the era,...<br>@Matt: <i>// according to all the writers of the era, the original intention was that the clone would stick around for about three months //</i><br /><br />I strongly recall a non-Marvel writer telling me off the record when the whole thing started that he'd heard from within the Spider-office the intention was for Ben Reilly to be the real Peter. The original replacement of the Spider-Man titles with Scarlet Spider versions was only for a couple of months, but after that Peter and MJ were to ride off into the sunset in short order; it was both a gimmicky event like DC had just enjoyed with Superman and Batman <i>and</i> a way to jettison what many perceived as a very non-Spidey status quo where he's a successful photographer married to a supermodel. Prolonging the saga was partly due to milking its success and partly due to waffling over whether the trigger should really be pulled on the switcheroo given fan backlash once the plan started to play out, from what I remember.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-36221673547579242412015-03-19T11:42:12.062-05:002015-03-19T11:42:12.062-05:00Oh yes, you're right -- I'm not trying to ...Oh yes, you're right -- I'm not trying to lay the story at Budiansky's feet. Like I said, I <b>liked</b> the Clone Saga. A lot. It was a nonstop page-turner for me, week after week, month after month. I even bought Marvel's COMPLETE CLONE SAGA TPBs a few years ago so I could have the whole thing on my bookcase (haven't read them yet though).<br /><br />Like I said, the blame <b>and/or</b> credit mostly goes to others besides Fingeroth. Some people will consider it blame; I consider it mostly to be credit.<br /><br />I agree about Peter striking Mary Jane, though. To this day I don't understand how that was greenlit, unless it was a deliberate attempt to get fans to turn on Peter and embrace Ben.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-12118290227435077112015-03-19T07:13:55.650-05:002015-03-19T07:13:55.650-05:00In Budiansky's defense, though, the clone saga...In Budiansky's defense, though, the clone saga had already become pretty complicated by the time that he took over the Spider-books, which was the issue where Doc Ock was killed. There were hints that Peter was the clone, MJ was pregnant, Kaine was introduced, there was no explanation for the "clones were fake" story in the late '80s,etc. And the storyline had already dragged on for 5 months across 4 Spider titles. Budiansky didn't inherit a good story and turn it into a mess- he inherited a mess and turned it into a much bigger mess. Which is not to say that Budiansky's decisions were defensible- Peter hitting MJ is something that should have never made it to the page.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-86359845547697738072015-03-18T17:29:28.995-05:002015-03-18T17:29:28.995-05:00Teemu -- Yes, it's true that sales went up, ap...Teemu -- Yes, it's true that sales went up, apparently considerably, when the Clone Saga started. And given that the speculator bubble was bursting right around that time, but the Spider-books were maintaining their sales momentum, it's understandable that Marvel's corporate overlords would want the story extended, and editorial reluctantly complied. But according to all the writers of the era, the original intention was that the clone would stick around for about three months (twelve issues total across all four titles), then the story would definitively conclude with Peter still in place as Spider-Man.<br /><br />Fingeroth may have greenlit the Saga, but he left not long into it, when Marvel restructured into that weird set-up with a different editor-in-chief for each line of books. Bob Budiansky got the Spider-Man family and ran much of the early to mid Clone Saga, all the stuff with Spider-Man and the Scarlet Spider running around at the same time, "The Trial of Peter Parker", "Maximum Clonage", that sort of thing. Then, when Marvel re-restructured back to a traditional single EiC format, Ralph Macchio took over as Spider-group editor and oversaw the era of Ben Reilly as Spider-Man and, ultimately, the end of the Saga <b>two years</b> after it had started under Fingeroth.<br /><br />(And yet somehow I still occasionally see people blame Bob Harras for the whole darn thing...!)<br /><br />Personally I loved the Clone Saga at the time; I've made no secret of that. But I know plenty of people hated it. In either case, though, I think you're correct that the majority of the blame and/or credit goes to others besides Fingeroth.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-84122215830338061812015-03-18T11:48:52.993-05:002015-03-18T11:48:52.993-05:00Tim & Matt: thanks for the lowdown on the Red ...Tim & Matt: thanks for the lowdown on the Red Skull/Spidey's parents stuff. That's one of those stories I've read about, but never actually read, so I'm fuzzy on the details. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-21497159341938785892015-03-18T04:00:56.926-05:002015-03-18T04:00:56.926-05:00To play devil's advocate, isn't the offici...To play devil's advocate, isn't the official truth that the beginning of the Clone Saga wasn't awful, but it was specifically the good fan response and heightened sales figures that prompted the marketing department to essentially hijack the project. If I am to assume he wasn't the editor in the end of the saga, it would suggest in this case he very much was not the culprit.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-91672457069485903092015-03-17T22:01:58.932-05:002015-03-17T22:01:58.932-05:00@Tim- that issue was the first to EXPLICITLY confi...@Tim- that issue was the first to EXPLICITLY confirm it outside the Handbooks but Solo Avengers 6 established that the Communist Red Skull worked out of Algeria and used a chest-mounted energy blaster, and the Annual that explained how Peter's parents died had the Skull working out of Algeria and using a chest-mounted energy blaster, so a reader would have to be pretty dumb not to make the connection after Solo Avengers 6. <br />@Matt- I can't believe you forgot Fingergoth's biggest sin- he was the editor when the Clone Saga started.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-56716967463975180032015-03-17T11:17:02.460-05:002015-03-17T11:17:02.460-05:00@Matt Thanks. I think I read the issue but forgot ...@Matt Thanks. I think I read the issue but forgot the details. I forget if any issues before had explicitly confirmed this (although the Handbooks state it) but it sounds like an attempt to just bat away all the letters asking about the continuity mess.Tim Roll-Pickeringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12589024696145675963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-2314841120305472972015-03-17T11:03:15.649-05:002015-03-17T11:03:15.649-05:00Tim -- "
(If none of that makes sense, it'...Tim -- "<b><br />(If none of that makes sense, it's because the storyline was a mess from start to two years later finish as the editor couldn't decide if the parents were real or not so the writer was floundering.)</b>"<br /><br />Danny Fingeroth seems like a nice guy from much of what I've seen, but his editorship led two of my favorite Spider-Man writers to quit the title. He came on AMAZING in the eighties and Roger Stern left about six issues later. He has since stated that he and Fingeroth just weren't on the same "wavelength" with regards to the character.<br /><br />Fingeroth left AMAZING too about a year or so later and returned as editor in the nineties, bringing with him the idea about Peter Parker's returned parents and forcing it on David Micheline. Michelinie stuck it out longer than Stern, but ultimately he quit too due to Fingeroth's uncertainty about the storyline.<br /><br />As you note, the real Red Skull did show up during the "parents" storyline. Spider-Man, not realizing that there had been two different Skulls, goes after the only one he can find, who is in full Gruenwald mode at this point, living in his mansion in (I believe) the Rocky Mountains with Viper/Madame Hydra by his side. But I don't believe Spider-Man and the Skull actually cross paths physically. Spidey fights Taskmaster, working for the Skull, and the Skull reveals the existence of the Communist imposter and absolves himself of anything to do with Richard and Mary Parker in a video broadcast to the web-slinger.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-55159271903096265192015-03-17T09:09:26.846-05:002015-03-17T09:09:26.846-05:00@Teebore No, although (I think) the original showe...@Teebore No, although (I think) the original showed up when Spidey was trying to verify their story. Spoilers ahead:<br /><br />It was the Chameleon, trying to find out the connection between Peter and Spider-Man, at the behest of Harry Osborn/Green Goblin who knew anyway and died in the interim.<br /><br />(If none of that makes sense, it's because the storyline was a mess from start to two years later finish as the editor couldn't decide if the parents were real or not so the writer was floundering.)Tim Roll-Pickeringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12589024696145675963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-33101793905785828992015-03-17T08:56:04.458-05:002015-03-17T08:56:04.458-05:00@Teemu: John's meta-messages have gone critica...@Teemu: <i>John's meta-messages have gone critical by now, as he apparently don't think even himself can write Doom appropriately.<br /></i><br /><br />Ha! <br /><br />@Anonymous: <i>He last appeared in Uncanny X-Men 247.</i><br /><br />D'oh! I'll fix that. <br /><br /><i>I think the Cabal's inability to agree on anything against the Avengers was supposed to be the point- they're too stubborn to work together.</i><br /><br />Oh, totally. That was absolutely intentional, and completely realistic. But that doesn't mean it automatically makes for a great story. It makes sense that all they'd do is squabble, but that's also not terribly exciting and it seems like an odd thing to build a big crossover story around. <br /><br />@wwk5d: <i>Also, from the dialogue, none of the villains have seemed to twig to the fact that they ALL think they're the "mastermind" of it all?</i><br /><br />Correct. Which is another odd thing. The idea of Loki playing to their vanity and convincing each one that he is the true mastermind is fine, but it seems like something that would fall apart as soon as they're in a room together. <br /><br />@Blam: <i>The cover to Avengers West Coast #54 is an homage to that of Fantastic Four #1, which may be so obvious that explicit mention is unnecessary</i><br /><br />Yeah, I didn't point it out because it was so explicit, but I probably should have just because, as you detail, homaging FF #1 is kind of a thing for Byrne.<br /><br /><i>Micheline named the kids caught up in the Spidey/Hulk battle Stan and Steve, by the way.</i><br /><br />Nice touch. I missed that (I was skimming a bit at that point). <br /><br /><i> I also wonder if Byrne wasn't loosing a bit of tit-for-tat commentary in the way Cap observes (in one of the panels you posted) how the attacks on other superheroes "seem more random, less organized." </i><br /><br />I'm now coming to love "Acts" more than ever, just for it serving as a thinly veiled back-and-forth snark attack between Byrne and a handful of his contemporaries. :) <br /><br />"This whole thing is aimless and pointless!" / "Yeah, well, that's cuz *you're* not doing it right!" <br /><br />@Mike: <i>The cover to ASM 328 just became the piece of original comic book art to sell for the highest price ever</i><br /><br />Yowza! I did not know that. <br /><br /><i>Nowadays, I wonder what younger fans respond to</i><br /><br />Me too. Like, would they be as enamored with the Image guys' work, seeing it today for the first time? Like, is there something about their work that appeals to adolescents, or just adolescents at the specific time they broke into the industry? <br /><br />@Tim: <i>He was killed just before the original Red Skull was revived.</i><br /><br />Was the other Red Skull also responsible for the whole "Spider-Man's parents return, but they're robots" plot, or was that the original Skull picking up the baton from his now-dead successor? Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-11907490832606972042015-03-12T16:13:33.262-05:002015-03-12T16:13:33.262-05:00Teemu, as someone who was reading Barks and Rosa l...Teemu, as someone who was reading Barks and Rosa long before I got regularly into Marvel, your comment about Donald Duck's license plate made my day.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-84695408300022044202015-03-12T10:57:25.029-05:002015-03-12T10:57:25.029-05:00Well. Up to this point I was a firm believer that ...Well. Up to this point I was a firm believer that any cover with "The Mutant Menace of Sebastuan Shaw" was well worth he cover price, but now...Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-56340628964357026072015-03-12T10:20:33.742-05:002015-03-12T10:20:33.742-05:00Magnetic's curiosity about the Skull may also ...Magnetic's curiosity about the Skull may also be because of the existance and then-recent death of the *other* Red Skull. When Captain America was revived in the 1950s so too was the Red Skull, now working for the Communists. Later on the 1960s revival ignored this and the 1970s retconned him into a different character who has also served as a useful way to sort out continuity mistakes, such as running a spy ring and murdering Spider-Man's parents in Algeria whilst being in suspended animation in Berlin. He was killed just before the original Red Skull was revived.<br /><br />Doom gets up to some crazy stuff in other tie ins when he decides to show off to the Kingpin that he can deal with the Punisher and manipulates Frank into attacking the other Doctor Doom (Kristoff with Doom's personality and some memories programmed in). Maybe the Doombot is Doom's and Byrne's way of discretely withdrawing from the mess.<br /><br />Of course Fantastic Four #350 came out about a year later and suggested that almost ALL appearances of Doom since FF #40 had been Doombots (exactly which was left up to individual readers).Tim Roll-Pickeringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12589024696145675963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-18413042944849524932015-03-12T10:16:24.654-05:002015-03-12T10:16:24.654-05:00The cover to ASM 328 just became the piece of orig...The cover to ASM 328 just became the piece of original comic book art to sell for the highest price ever: $657,250. <br /><br />Crazy. <br /><br />I came of age in the late-'80s/early '90s so McFarlane's art was part of the landscape. Looking at it now I see flaws a'plenty. Back then, though, the sheer amount of lines and muscles must have overwhelmed my sense of aesthetics because he was "the best." It was a known, agreed upon fact that McFarlane was the number 1 comic book artist (with Jim Lee in 2nd place and Liefeld in 3rd). <br /><br />When you're young enough and its around 1990, the manic energy in the inking and kewl poses are what defines "good." Nowadays, I wonder what younger fans respond to (assuming there are any :). Is it themore complicated coloring? The slicker-looking art that wasn't a factor in the early '90s? Anyone know any younger fans who read Marvel and/or DC comics?<br /><br />- Mike LoughlinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-73408724538503319902015-03-12T08:53:48.153-05:002015-03-12T08:53:48.153-05:00Typo! I meant The Amazing Spider-Man #328, not #32...<br>Typo! I meant <i>The Amazing Spider-Man</i> #328, not #32 (whose art is way better but which admittedly does not contain the panel in question).<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-3142042462004783592015-03-12T08:49:55.626-05:002015-03-12T08:49:55.626-05:00The cover to Avengers West Coast #54 is an homage ...<br>The cover to <i>Avengers West Coast</i> #54 is an homage to that of <i>Fantastic Four</i> #1, which may be so obvious that explicit mention is unnecessary, but it's interesting (to me, anyway, if also fairly unsurprising) that Byrne put a "#5" next to his signature. His four previous homages were on <i>Amazing Heroes</i> #1 in 1981, <i>What If?</i> #36 in 1982, <i>FF</i> #264 in 1983, and <i>Marvel Age</i> #14 in 1984. Still to come were the covers to the magazine <i>Organic Gardening</i> Vol. 40 #4 in 1993, <i>Danger Unlimited</i> in 1994 (an homage to <i>Journey into Mystery</i> #68 as well), and <i>X-Men: The Hidden Years</i> #20 in 2001. Yeah, I keep track of this stuff.<br /><br />Another Byrne trademark is the way Iron Man uses physics, logistics, and data from his armor's onboard computer — not to mention more humanity than USAgent shows — to figure out how, and how not, to dispose of the creature temporarily at the start of that issue.<br /><br />While I pretty much loathe McFarlane's artwork overall, <i>The Amazing Spider-Man</i> #32 does have one really nice panel of Spider-Man seen from behind flying amidst the New York cityscape. The figures in the rest of the issue are so horrendous that it all averages out to completely reinforce my hatred, of course, which makes that panel curious and frustrating. <br /><br />Micheline named the kids caught up in the Spidey/Hulk battle Stan and Steve, by the way.<br /><br />Teemu perfectly snarked my reaction to the revelation that it was a Doombot in the Prime Movers' chamber. I also wonder if Byrne wasn't loosing a bit of tit-for-tat commentary in the way Cap observes (in one of the panels you posted) how the attacks on other superheroes "seem more <i>random</i>, less <i>organized</i>." Even if the aim was always to have Loki's anti-Avengers vendetta uncovered as the secret heart of the whole deal, Byrne could've been miffed that other creative teams basically didn't try harder to make it cool and organic rather than, um, what Cap said, certain writers, as we've noted, even pointing out how nonsensical some of the goings-on were.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-36294085331412413792015-03-12T06:39:47.093-05:002015-03-12T06:39:47.093-05:00wwk5d: Also, from the dialogue, none of the villai...wwk5d: <i>Also, from the dialogue, none of the villains have seemed to twig to the fact that they ALL think they're the "mastermind" of it all?</i><br /><br />Maybe they all are silently nearing the realization that they've been had and possibly like the Mad Thinker recognizing their "lackey", a Viking god. I'm not sure I'd push it if I was in that position, but I'd probably drag my feet to any further trouble, which curiously is exactly what the folks here do.Teemunoreply@blogger.com