tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post4899674273215665512..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining X-Men (vol. 2) #2Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-38048174960533511382016-05-05T18:57:39.227-05:002016-05-05T18:57:39.227-05:00It's not the image- it's the word balloons...It's not the image- it's the word balloons. Magneto's word balloons in that scene are different than when he usually talks, like the kind you usually see when someone's talking via radio.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-81265364416246184202016-05-05T16:27:14.598-05:002016-05-05T16:27:14.598-05:00"This issue reveals that the events we (the r..."This issue reveals that the events we (the readers) know as "X-Tinction Agenda" are also known as such by the characters in-universe."<br /><br />Situations like this have always fascinated me - And in a grander sense, things that we see in the comics that civilians in-universe also know (Like civilians referencing past battles).<br /><br />I've often wondered how much of the X-Men mythos is known to the general public at large. Like do they know who's on the team, what battles they fought, etc.? The X-Men differ from most other superheroes in that they're more underground and tend to stay out of the spotlight (And when they get into the spotlight it's usually bad news).<br /><br />On a side note, we also know characters' secret identities, but it's easy to forget the general public doesn't know who they are. I realized this while reason Grant Morrison's Batman and Robin series a few years back. Dick Grayson was Batman at the time, and he's meeting with Gordon and some cops. As Dick and Damian leave, one of the cops says to another "Did he get shorter?" I also think there was a remark about his voice being different. We as readers know that Dick is Batman now, but the public assumes it's the same guy. This also happens a lot when a new character assumes the mantle of a superhero and everyone just assumes it's the same person but with a new costume.Ian Millerhttp://ianjmiller.deviantart.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-50896826072677012232016-05-05T15:01:06.915-05:002016-05-05T15:01:06.915-05:00Yep. I missed the panel in a cursory reread before...Yep. I missed the panel in a cursory reread before posting my comment but it’s right where you said.Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-64873762733920454802016-05-05T12:32:45.422-05:002016-05-05T12:32:45.422-05:00Blam: I’m also not sure how the Danger Room has in...Blam: <i>I’m also not sure how the Danger Room has intel on the Acolytes when I couldn’t tell you how many of them there are, let alone their various powers -- -- I wonder if Claremont sprained anything when he threw his hands up after seeing that page.</i><br /><br />There appears an extra female acolute now who gets no name nor vocal acknowledgement of her existence. Online resources name her Nance Winters, one of the SHIELD agents. With this and the "what is a Delgado" in the previous issue it's hard not to think that co-plotter Lee had an idea of the SHIELD agents getting brainwashed to Magneto's agenda and that it absolutely didn't fly with Claremont (it's nonsensical of course with them being flatscans). Remembering Byrne's cooperation-ending indignation about Claremont usurping his last say as the scripter, it's alanismorrissetteic that he gets this done by his penciler-co-plotter here now.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-53078410101594642402016-05-05T12:27:11.283-05:002016-05-05T12:27:11.283-05:00I find it odd that Claremont gave himself an "...I find it odd that Claremont gave himself an "out", so to speak, to explain how his version of Magneto had reverted to villainy, but chose not to take it. I like the idea that his good phase was due to Moira's tinkering and his reversion to villainy is simply because it didn't stick. It justifies "headmaster Magneto" but also returns the character to his irredeemable roots all at once. It seems like a win/win for everyone involved.<br /><br />I understand your analysis -- that Moira's involvement would mean Magneto didn't grow on his own -- but the original Magneto was just straight up evil. I just have a hard time believing he could pull off the full 180 Claremont wrote.<br /><br />(Though I would also accept the explanation from CLASSIC X-MEN as discussed by Jason and yourself above. I know CXM is technically canon, but someone really should have overtly canonized it in one of the main X-books during the nineties; maybe around the time of "Fatal Attractions"...)<br /><br />"<b>why wouldn't the codename be Extinction Agenda? Why does SHIELD need to highlight the "X" in their codename</b>"<br /><br />I dunno, the U.S. military loves to give cute nicknames to operations and people. I think it fits.<br /><br />"<b>Forge takes a cheap shot at the oft-losing Mets</b>..."<br /><br />Funny to look at that comment this particular season, as the Mets defend their National League pennant.<br /><br />"<b>Jim Lee once again draws Banshee buttoning the high collar of his uniform, something I always appreciate.</b>"<br /><br />I like it too, though I also like that he frequently has the collar flared, since it looks more like his original costume that way.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-18660235517155905102016-05-05T12:27:02.736-05:002016-05-05T12:27:02.736-05:00"I've said it before, the Cortez we get i..."<b>I've said it before, the Cortez we get in these 3 issues is so much more interesting and credible as a threat to the incompetent buffoon we end up getting.</b>"<br /><br />One thing I liked about X-MEN FOREVER was that Claremont hinted there was more to Cortez than met the eye, and presenting him as the main villain of the series' first story. The X-Men were all about tracking down Cortez right away after the events of X-MEN 1 - 3.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-12189606786426640572016-05-05T12:24:54.021-05:002016-05-05T12:24:54.021-05:00I've never actually read that DEFENDERS arc, s...I've never actually read that DEFENDERS arc, so for me, Alpha was, is, and always will be really cool.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-15297633226343324842016-05-05T09:44:04.552-05:002016-05-05T09:44:04.552-05:00I like this corner box too. Generally, I prefer th...I like this corner box too. Generally, I prefer the classic floating heads look, but I have a soft spot for this one. Probably because it was in place when I first started reading. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-69802583789798604552016-05-05T09:42:53.509-05:002016-05-05T09:42:53.509-05:00Yeah, I see that pop up in a few places, and it al...Yeah, I see that pop up in a few places, and it always drives me nuts (similar to when Jean's "death" in UXM #281 gets cited as an example of how the character always dies and gets resurrected). Like, did they not read the next issue? This isn't even a retcon that gets re-retconned years later or something; it's something that happens in the middle of the story. It'd be like writing a reference guide to the X-Men that declares half the team defected to Magneto's side at this point and never returned. <br /><br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-46060218400287041712016-05-05T09:39:00.384-05:002016-05-05T09:39:00.384-05:00Between this and X-MEN #200, you'd think Alpha...Between this and X-MEN #200, you'd think Alpha is much cooler than he actually is if they were your first encounters with him (as they were for me). :) Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-67986378830216728672016-05-05T09:35:51.925-05:002016-05-05T09:35:51.925-05:00I like the CLASSIC X-MEN retcon a little bit more,...I like the CLASSIC X-MEN retcon a little bit more, simply because it positions Magneto's redemption as genuine while still offering up an explanation for the extreme shift in his characterization over time. I think it even works as a fanwank to explain all the up-and-down portrayals of Magneto we'll get after this, where he'll ping-pong from "raving loon" to "measured and nuanced villain" again and again. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-69903553543063905562016-05-05T09:33:40.456-05:002016-05-05T09:33:40.456-05:00Yeah, I thought the "carrying the boathouse i...Yeah, I thought the "carrying the boathouse into the upper atmosphere" was nice homage, whether intentional or not, and whether prompted by Lee or Claremont (I'd honestly put my money on Lee, in fact). Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-35906254402259422142016-05-05T09:32:38.141-05:002016-05-05T09:32:38.141-05:00I've seen that noted in a few places, but I...I've seen that noted in a few places, but I've never been entirely sure what prompts it. Certainly, I never read issue #1 and thought Magneto was a hologram until I saw people on the internet saying he was. It's not like his image ever "glitches out" or anything; what is it in issue #1 that suggests he's a hologram? Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-2257622987176474642016-05-05T09:30:59.373-05:002016-05-05T09:30:59.373-05:00it’s like Batman’s utility belt was gangbanged by ...<i> it’s like Batman’s utility belt was gangbanged by a platoon of Army Rangers on a bed of GI Joe accessories.</i><br /><br />Haha! <br /><br /><i>Are they officially called Blue and Gold yet, by the way?</i><br /><br />I'm pretty sure last issue had Professor X telling Cyclops to take the Blue team to face Magneto while Storm's Gold team hung back in reserve, but now you have me doubting that...<br /><br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-43933357484680611792016-05-05T07:14:59.705-05:002016-05-05T07:14:59.705-05:00"The new series gets its corner cover box thi..."The new series gets its corner cover box this issue"<br /><br />I always liked it.<br /><br />"this issue shows that he actually has the ability to supercharge other people's powers"<br /><br />This is also the only issue to suggest that Cortez has some serious martial arts skills, given that he overpowers Psylocke in hand-to-hand combat. I've said it before, the Cortez we get in these 3 issues is so much more interesting and credible as a threat to the incompetent buffoon we end up getting.<br /><br />"I’m also not sure how the Danger Room has intel on the Acolytes when I couldn’t tell you how many of them there are"<br /><br />My own fan wank is that since the Acolytes were being pursued by SHIELD agents, SHIELD had intel on them and shared it with the X-men. Also Jean off-panel was monitoring the situation in Genosha using Cerebro, so got even more intel on the Acolytes.<br /><br />Otherwise, a wizard did it. <br /><br />All in all, despite a few flaws (a bit too much wordiness from CC, like is he trying to cram in as many words per page as he can in his final issues?), this is a pretty strong issue. The pacing is good, there is a nice mix of action and characterization, and Lee's artwork is really strong here. <br /><br />As you say, the real focus of the issue is CC's work on Megneto, and it is very interesting. His retcon here is almost an answer to people like Stern and Byrne who keep wanting to revert Magneto to his Silver Age one dimension personality. In a way, giving a reason why a raving lunatic like Megneto would reform. Then next issue is even more delicious, like CC is saying "Syke! He reformed because there is a genuine and sincere part of him that is a good person, even if that part doesn't always win out in the end!" It makes Magneto a deep, conflicted character, much more superior to the generic mustache twirling loon others seem hell-bent on forcing him back into being. wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-20037082470185356882016-05-05T04:51:22.631-05:002016-05-05T04:51:22.631-05:00Says "Ultimate" on the title, can be wri...Says "Ultimate" on the title, can be written off as nonsense. ;)Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-69907391096350127042016-05-05T04:28:35.476-05:002016-05-05T04:28:35.476-05:00Sadly, some people have taken the pseudo-retcon as...Sadly, some people have taken the pseudo-retcon as canon without acknowledging the payoff. One website and the X-MEN: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE published at the turn-of-the-century use the 'Magneto-became-a-good-guy-because-Moira-tampered-with-his-DNA' excuse.angmc43@hotmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379700547226493861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-28658046659632355512016-05-05T02:15:15.144-05:002016-05-05T02:15:15.144-05:00Continuing last issue's embrace of X-history, ...<i>Continuing last issue's embrace of X-history, this issue dives even deeper, not only referencing the events of Defenders #16 (the fairly laughable story in which Magneto is reduced to infancy by his own creation, Mutant Alpha) but using it as a significant plot point for the story.</i><br /><br />Always an important bit of Magneto backstory of me, as it was similarly referenced in UNCANNY #200, partially printed in my very first X-Men issue. Claremont has fine history of taking the happenstance seriously, with a point of his defense being that the criminal acts prior his "rebirth" weren't actionable. Very haunting rendition of Mutant Alpha there in the flashback for an uninitiated.<br /><br />Of course, it was also a convenient way of doing away the Silver Age villainy not written by Claremont.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-11217456978939710062016-05-05T01:40:33.421-05:002016-05-05T01:40:33.421-05:00"The latter is actually a rather fascinating ... "The latter is actually a rather fascinating pseudo-retcon (pseudo because next issue will roll it back): providing an in-universe explanation for the change in Magneto's behavior as Claremont transitioned him from a raving, one-dimensional loon to one of the most nuanced characters in comics. "<br /><br />This issue was picking up on some material that Claremont first seeded in 1987, with "Classic X-Men" #19's backup story. Moira talks about the same thing that the doctor in the 1987 story does, about Magneto channeling "primal forces" through his body is having an effect on the electrical connections in his brain and spinal cord. The suggestion is that the "nuanced" Magneto is the "real one," and the "raving loon" is (at least partially) the result of brain damage from Magneto's manipulation of Magnetism. It is indeed, fascinating. And also awesome.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-71863583074201429612016-05-04T23:56:56.218-05:002016-05-04T23:56:56.218-05:00Magneto hijacks a house with people in it to the o...Magneto hijacks a house with people in it to the orbit, vol 2. Gotta wonder if it's intentional take by Claremont on the newly villainous Magneto of Acts of Vengeance fame.<br /><br />But that UN scene. Totally unbelievable stuff that a representative of a country could go claiming like that that they'll do it alone if the UN is incapable of acting against a tyrant with weapons of mass destruction. Who writes this crap?Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-55160190847870206722016-05-04T23:26:55.401-05:002016-05-04T23:26:55.401-05:00Note that Magneto seemed to be a hologram last iss...Note that Magneto seemed to be a hologram last issue but he's definitely real this issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-15454593929716226092016-05-04T21:51:47.969-05:002016-05-04T21:51:47.969-05:00Holy crap! I’m surprised Fury can stand up. The wa...<br>Holy crap! I’m surprised Fury can stand up. The way Lee piled on his gear it’s like Batman’s utility belt was gangbanged by a platoon of Army Rangers on a bed of GI Joe accessories.<br /><br /><i>// a rather fascinating pseudo-retcon //</i><br /><br />I haven’t read these issues in 25 years, and I don’t recall how or to what extent the idea gets walked back next chapter, but I agree. We didn’t really need an explanation for Magneto’s evolution under Claremont in the present day — first, given how the whole de-aged/re-aged situation had made his turn towards Xavier's POV easy enough to canonically rationalize, and second, given that even within the Silver Age itself and even at Marvel, which became known for its more nuanced characterization of heroes and villains both, there was a tidal change over that decade-plus span in terms of what readers expected and creators attempted to deliver. An explanation for how Magneto became that cackling villain <i>after</i> the continuity implants of his past as written by Claremont, however, and for his regression of sorts since leaving the school, for why he might feel so conflicted about it all, <i>does</i> seem warranted. Claremont may have been the only one amongst the creative or editorial crew who thought so, unfortunately. I’m not sure how Moira can manipulate the X-Men’s DNA to make them specifically and instantly sympathetic if not subservient to Magneto, though, versus altering Magneto’s DNA as a child in hopes of neutralizing or compensating for the possible cause of an electrochemical imbalance over his lifetime; of course, I’m not a brilliant geneticist in a fictional universe conducive to stuff like that.<br /><br /><i>// the Gold team, having learned of their teammates' apparent betrayal, practice fighting them, the Acolytes and Magneto in the Danger Room //</i><br /><br />I’m also not sure how the Danger Room has intel on the Acolytes when I couldn’t tell you how many of them there are, let alone their various powers, so I guess we just have to fold it into the literally unanswered question of Storm’s to Jean about whether her psychic rapport with Scott is how she knows his team is working for Magneto now. I wonder if Claremont sprained anything when he threw his hands up after seeing that page.<br /><br /><i>// Magneto captures the Blue team //</i><br /><br />Are they officially called Blue and Gold yet, by the way? While I recall knowing those labels were in use around the time these issues came out, that might’ve been from marketing or press coverage; if the teams were referred to as such here or in <i>Uncanny</i> so far I missed it. <br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-77292309874495296022016-05-04T15:40:40.060-05:002016-05-04T15:40:40.060-05:00Nice analysis regarding this being all Magneto'...Nice analysis regarding this being all Magneto's story, something I probably picked up on, and a reason why I love(d) this story. The fact that Claremont was perhaps intentionally writing his own swan-song about Magneto only adds to this book for me.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11428939457863204851noreply@blogger.com