tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post4232168517906590208..comments2024-03-22T04:20:11.870-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining New Mutants #98Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-91633819912688430002021-02-10T22:03:25.126-06:002021-02-10T22:03:25.126-06:00I read this issue for the first time ever last nig...I read this issue for the first time ever last night... and was literally laughing out loud, which has never happened to me when reading comics. Even as someone who enjoyed The Rob's artwork as a 10 year old, now, at 38 it is just straight comedy.<br /><br />Some of the more entertaining pieces:<br /><br />1. The top portion of Senor DaCosta's office chair changes shapes 3 times in two pages.<br /><br />2. The coffee "cup" DaCosta drinks his poison from looks more like an infamous Liefeld pouch than a cup.<br /><br />3. DaCosta doesn't just sip his coffee, nor does he even drink it like a normal person... rather, he opens his mouth and throws it down his throat (this had me laughing the hardest).<br /><br />4. During the conversation between Boom Boom and Rictor in Rictor's room, Boomer takes a liking to a large pot on the dresser (you know, because Rob decided to randomly draw SOMETHING to make the place not look so sparse) and ends up pointing at it a lot while speaking to Rictor.<br /><br />5. The books on the bookshelves in the library when Cable is attacked by Deadpool are absolutely gigantic. They look like they are maybe two and a half feet long, each.<br /><br />6. The pistol Deadpool is pointing at Cable has either no hand grip or a bent one.<br /><br />7. Domino mounting Deadpool (glad I wasn't the only one who caught this... I don't feel so pervy now).<br /><br />8. Boomer's nightstand is at first, huge, then in the next panel it shrinks and both a digital clock and Rictor's note magically appear on it.<br /><br />That said, I did still enjoy the issue. I look at it as just a silly Rob comic and still find the fun in it that I did as a kid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-76047130585060395652015-11-22T21:44:21.898-06:002015-11-22T21:44:21.898-06:00One thing? Was Domino MEANT to be Copycat at this ...One thing? Was Domino MEANT to be Copycat at this point in time, or was she thought of as the real Domino? Because by the time the "revelation" happened Rob was already off the book. Was this an example of utelizing Liefeld's original idea to completion, or was this a way of Nicieza creating a sudden "shocking twist" to needlessly complicate a situation (which he has an unfortunate habit of doing, as we'll see when we get to the awful, awful "Revanche" storyline.) I just have to wo der because this seems like a bizarre thing to do with a BRAND NEW character.Jon Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11783906806644566810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-5068908151658381252015-11-18T01:25:09.561-06:002015-11-18T01:25:09.561-06:00Genesis is a name that Bishop and Trevor Fitzroy w...Genesis is a name that Bishop and Trevor Fitzroy will soon enough try to slag on Forge too. Would've been better if <i>someone</i> did think twice.<br /><br />But the most horrifying part is that Tyler would be what the Summers bloodline will come down to.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-64747017079498962022015-11-18T01:15:48.325-06:002015-11-18T01:15:48.325-06:00I have way too easy time imagining Liefeld (and/or...I have way too easy time imagining Liefeld (and/or Tyler) settling on pseudonym "Tolliver" just because it's kind of close to "Tyler" (if they have settled up with that yet). Because nothing shouts "cool new villain" like the name Tyler Tolliver. (he said, painfully conscious of his own alliterative name)Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-59933792160158488602015-11-17T17:30:44.054-06:002015-11-17T17:30:44.054-06:00Has there ever been any explanation of Cable’s nam...Has there ever been any explanation of Cable’s name, in-story or just what prompted Liefeld (or Simonson, or Harras) to go with that?Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-40639114084950180982015-11-17T16:37:29.726-06:002015-11-17T16:37:29.726-06:00Never mind that her bed appears to simply be a mat...<i>Never mind that her bed appears to simply be a mattress straight on the floor, since that could actually be explained away as makeshift appropriation of the space for living quarters, but her night table is enormous.</i><br /><br />That's another recurring Liefeld-ism (the boxspring-less mattress). I'm pretty sure there's other examples in his Image work of characters' mattresses just sitting on the floor, but then in close ups, they're sitting on the mattress like its raised up off the floor, as a normal one would be. <br /><br /><i>So I guess he could absorb those of a camera or an airplane or a dishwasher.</i><br /><br />Right? That just seems like a power a twelve year old scribbling in a notebook would come up with, something that seems cool on the surface ("absorb the abilities of anything around you!") but falls apart the moment you give it any thought. Which, I guess, is Liefeld in a nutshell. <br /><br /><i>Is that Terry or Tad or whomever? Wait — Tyler! Just remembered!</i><br /><br />Gold star! Poor Tyler. His super-villain name (Genesis) is as unremarkable as his given name (no offense to the Tyler's of the world. It's just that when we meet him, "Tyler" seems like an ill-fit for the character). <br /><br /><i>I’ll take your word for it that he’s no longer considered a team member going forward, but this seems like not so much quitting as defying Cable to (attempt to) bring Wolfsbane into the New Mutants fold.</i><br /><br />Yeah, a better creative team, one more interested in legitimately transitioning NEW MUTANTS into X-FORCE, would return to this character at some point in time, but Liefeld is simply clearing the deck of the characters he doesn't like, and it falls on Nicieza to bring back Rictor. <br /><br /><br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-69904443258935275112015-11-17T16:31:29.525-06:002015-11-17T16:31:29.525-06:00Isn't this whole issue one big long 501 Genes?...<i>Isn't this whole issue one big long 501 Genes? Just from the panels you posted:</i><br /><br />Pretty much, yeah. I just highlighted the things which stuck out at me as being more humorous than most. <br /><br /><i> The tone of Cable as a character has shifted as well. Before, he was a hard case but at least he seemed to have some interest in teaching the kids. Now he's shifted to being a stone cold general looking to fight a war. </i><br /><br />This really becomes apparent next issue. His dismissal of Sunspot is so...petulant and nonchalant that it reads like the character is supposed to be mind-controlled or making some kind of larger point, but nope, he's just a dick now. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-5260413104454880972015-11-17T16:29:14.152-06:002015-11-17T16:29:14.152-06:00Yeah, that was one of the earliest plot developmen...Yeah, that was one of the earliest plot developments that didn't sit right with me. I pretty much ate up whatever the creators were putting out around the time (it was early in my comics reading). I don't know that I had a critical enough outlook at the time to say "that was dumb and unnecessary!" but I definitely didn't think it was awesome, and the idea that the Domino I'd been reading about wasn't the real deal didn't sit right with me. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-18935606843462708672015-11-17T16:25:20.848-06:002015-11-17T16:25:20.848-06:00I frankly have a hard time imagining Liefeld inten...I frankly have a hard time imagining Liefeld intending anything, other than "here's a cool new mystery! Don't worry, I'll figure it out later!" Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-39218798597080972572015-11-17T16:24:16.814-06:002015-11-17T16:24:16.814-06:00I can totally see Rictor whining like that for wee...I can totally see Rictor whining like that for weeks. It would even play into Boom-Boom's "I didn't think he was serious..." comment when his absence is discovered next issue. <br /><br />And yeah, Boom-Boom is the only one of the New New Mutants left, and after next issue, it'll just be her and Sam that have been around since before #87. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-63096210379755105782015-11-17T16:22:53.048-06:002015-11-17T16:22:53.048-06:00I'm fairly certain anyone paying hundreds of d...I'm fairly certain anyone paying hundreds of dollars for any issue at this point is paying that simply to have the issue, not to actually read it (which in the case of slabbed books would be entirely beside the point). Barring some obscure Golden Age/Silver Age stuff, pretty much everything is available nowadays, either in a reprint, a collection, digitially, etc. if all you want to do is read an issue in question. But collecting, the simple act of getting and having something, is still an active part of the hobby (see also: variant covers). <br /><br />I myself am on a quest to own a physical, readable (but they don't have to be mint) copy of every issue of X-MEN and AVENGERS, despite the fact that I've already read the stories contained therein and probably won't ever read the actual physical issues (instead re-reading them via collections or digital editions), though I'd be hard pressed to spend hundreds of dollars on any one issue outside the first. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-48610532658152752862015-11-17T16:18:41.064-06:002015-11-17T16:18:41.064-06:00I too have a soft spot for Nicieza's CABLE &am...I too have a soft spot for Nicieza's CABLE & DEADPOOL series. I also read the Gail Simone/Udon issues of DEADPOOL (towards the end of his original series), the ones with Taskmaster as a supporting cast member, and mostly enjoyed them. I'd probably enjoy the Joe Kelly run, if I ever get around to reading it. I mostly didn't mind him in the various X-FORCE relaunches of the last few years. But I haven't read any of his series since he became the huge hit that he is now. I think a little goes a long way. <br /><br />As for the similarities to Deathstroke, I mean, some of that has to be intentional, though I could totally see Liefeld totally coming up with him on his own and the similarities were just a coincidence, and then later creators winkingly played them up. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-63081021214340063202015-11-11T23:18:07.636-06:002015-11-11T23:18:07.636-06:00@Teemu: // [H]ow obvious do you guys feel the conn...<br>@Teemu: <i>// [H]ow obvious do you guys feel the connection was here to that other *ade Wilson on the basis of the visual appearance and the moniker? //</i><br /><br />I always figured there was some pretty direct, um, inspiration going on, particularly as concerns the mask and Deadpool packing both firearms and swords on his back. While I haven’t read much in the way of Deadpool stories, I’m under the impression too that he’s called “Wade” more often than “Wilson” even by folks who don’t know him that familiarly, and Deathstroke is infamous for being referred to as “Slade” all the time in situations where his first name is not appropriate. I don’t know how much you can blame Liefeld for non-visual similarities, though, like you say.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-83062179937197213482015-11-11T23:15:04.807-06:002015-11-11T23:15:04.807-06:00I’m kind-of impressed that Liefeld even bothered t...<br>I’m kind-of impressed that Liefeld even bothered trying to draw some furniture in Boom-Boom’s room, but… Oy. Never mind that her bed appears to simply be a mattress straight on the floor, since that could actually be explained away as makeshift appropriation of the space for living quarters, but her night table is enormous.<br /><br /><i>// as he uses the "abilities" of the robots attacking him //</i><br /><br />So I guess he could absorb those of a camera or an airplane or a dishwasher.<br /><br /><i>// eventually Mr. Tolliver will be revealed to be Cable's adult son //</i><br /><br />Is that Terry or Tad or whomever? Wait — Tyler! Just remembered!<br /><br /><i>// Rictor, who quits this issue //</i><br /><br />I’ll take your word for it that he’s no longer considered a team member going forward, but this seems like not so much quitting as defying Cable to (attempt to) bring Wolfsbane into the New Mutants fold.<br /><br /><i>// as Gideon mysteriously arrives in Roberto's bedroom //</i><br /><br />Maybe Deadpool and Gideon could break into the X-Mansion bunker, fine, but it doesn’t scan for them to do it without setting off alarms.<br /><br /><i>// Gideon is introduced on the first page with a pair of hands floating in front of him. //</i><br /><br />Liefeld definitely has a thing for splayed fingers. Hands pretty much do either that or make fists unless the situation absolutely demands otherwise, like when Roberto’s father is grasping his Magical Deadly Cup of Strange Metal and Changing Size.<br /><br /><i>// Liefeld can't even get Bart Simpson right //</i><br /><br />I’m actually going to mildly defend him here and point out that, to my eyes at least, it’s not a terrible Bart Simpson, and furthermore I know from both observation and first-hand exerpience that it’s much, much harder to draw characters with such inflexible parameters of style on-model, your Mickey Mouse and old-school Archie and Richie Rich, than it is to do creditable jobs on superheroic figures in general; I once saw George Pérez's version of Sergio Aragonés’ Groo and he didn't quite get it right.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-85613059323142315152015-11-10T06:16:10.955-06:002015-11-10T06:16:10.955-06:00Maybe, maybe not. When the Warren Ellis relaunch s...Maybe, maybe not. When the Warren Ellis relaunch started back in 2000, Dani vented her frustration at the new direction of the team and in the end just walked away. Something similar might have happened here. wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-6205728519275324122015-11-09T21:20:55.314-06:002015-11-09T21:20:55.314-06:00Oh, absolutely... no argument there. In-universe, ...Oh, absolutely... no argument there. In-universe, X-Force never happens if Dani is around.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12407819392886240666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-5025835737392309832015-11-07T05:51:03.793-06:002015-11-07T05:51:03.793-06:00Isn't this whole issue one big long 501 Genes?...Isn't this whole issue one big long 501 Genes? Just from the panels you posted:<br /><br />*Why is Domino attempting to mount Deadpool? For that matter, why can't Liefeld get her costume details from one panel to the next correct? Not to mention the anatomy and proportions of her body...<br />*That must have been the world's most painful poison used on Emmanuel Da Costa.<br />*Is Cannonball landing/jumping in that panel with Cable? <br />*For that matter, if they are having a civil conversation in the next panel, why is Cannonball doing the patented Shouting at Someone With His Eyes Closed look?<br />*Speaking of bad anatomy/proportions, Boom-Boom's pose while talking to Rictor looks painful. And why aren't they facing each other?<br /><br />Yeesh, this hasn't aged well at all. Granted, even back then, Liefeld's art had certain tics which I never really liked, but that, that is just some shittastic artwork right there. And it honestly hasn't gotten better. I can't believe he still has fans to this day who would spend money him.<br /><br />You can really feel Simonson's absence from the title. Whatever lip service Cable gave towards trying to find Rusty and Skids is pretty much shrugged off. The tone of Cable as a character has shifted as well. Before, he was a hard case but at least he seemed to have some interest in teaching the kids. Now he's shifted to being a stone cold general looking to fight a war. And yes, the way former characters are dismissed as being too lame for Liefeld's Kewl Kids squad is kind of a slap in the face to long term readers of this title (well, the ones who were left at this point).<br /><br />And the worst is yet to come...<br />wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-71626734134779493932015-11-07T05:03:22.684-06:002015-11-07T05:03:22.684-06:00That reveal in X-Force that Domino had been an imp...That reveal in X-Force that Domino had been an impostor and a traitor from the start was so hacky. As if we needed another evil doppelganger after the Stryfe reveal. Or the Madrox story in X-Factor. Or the "traitor from within" deal that had just been teased with Gambit. Or ...Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-2070241579082975862015-11-06T23:05:06.521-06:002015-11-06T23:05:06.521-06:00The points by both of you are extremely valid, but...The points by both of you are extremely valid, but in-universe Cable would so totally not want anyone like Dani there to question himself. She wouldn't be taking any of the crap Cable is shoveling there at Cannonball.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-71492181093897184322015-11-06T22:56:55.515-06:002015-11-06T22:56:55.515-06:00Technically "ironcutter", which sounds m...Technically "ironcutter", which sounds more like the fifth member of the Wrecking Crew who left before they became famous.<br /><br />Though, I was longing after Loki as an X-villain very recently, so it'd be fine by me if it would be revealed that it was Loki (of Wrecking Crew connections) behind it, having his vengeance on Cyclops by having his son killed by one of Loki's "it's your own hand that's hitting you" maneuvers meant to circumvent the dictate by Those Who Sit Above In Shadows. <br /><br />Would fit nicely really with the 'Nathan' reveal on the very same issue, and Cable of course is already onto him at this point enough to not want Dani of Asgard there to see through it with her valkyrie powers and ruin everything.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-83833444843783069362015-11-06T21:47:29.679-06:002015-11-06T21:47:29.679-06:00Tolliver's name means "metalworker" ...Tolliver's name means "metalworker" so I wonder if Liefeld initially intended him as Magneto?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-27018776138046385412015-11-06T12:08:14.260-06:002015-11-06T12:08:14.260-06:00Was it Liefeld who gave him that civilian name, or...Was it Liefeld who gave him that civilian name, or was it someone else at some point, maybe a teensy bit to underline the obvious-to-the-namer homage? Won't scholar it up myself now, as we are entering area I have never read yet myself and want to do freshly.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-46324411511917533652015-11-06T11:07:43.078-06:002015-11-06T11:07:43.078-06:00I like Deadpool, sometimes at least, but I don'...I <b>like</b> Deadpool, sometimes at least, but I don't get his insane popularity these days either. The Joe Kelly and Gail Simone issues of his solo series were mostly really good, and I absolutely loved Nicieza's CABLE & DEADPOOL (now rebranded in Omnibus format as DEADPOOL & CABLE, to give an idea of who wears the popularity pants in that relationship these days) -- but I find that most writers just use him as a vehicle to point out what they believe is the inherent stupidity of comics, and that just rubs me the wrong way. But -- not to come across as too Byrne-ish -- I wonder if that's not why people like the guy so much -- he sort of justifies their interest in superheroes by reassuring them that yes, this is all ridiculous, but it's okay because Deadpool is in the universe telling them so.<br /><br />Also, I've read where people consider him a bit of a ripoff of Deathstroke, though based on what little I've read of the Terminator I don't see that -- but I somehow never noticed the "__ade Wilson" connection, Teemu. That had to be intentional on Liefeld's part, right?Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-16954983098134290662015-11-06T06:32:15.552-06:002015-11-06T06:32:15.552-06:00That whole scene just reads like Liefeld evaluatin...That whole scene just reads like Liefeld evaluating his predecessors' characters and going "Nope, mine are kewler". It's so gross now.Melahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05539894845356203447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-28242380146944707162015-11-06T05:35:30.853-06:002015-11-06T05:35:30.853-06:00And no, I'm not trying to push the comments co...And no, I'm not trying to push the comments counter to Cable-premieresque figures all by myself, but as I feel it's subtly hinted here that Deadpool's popularity belies all sensibility, I'll own up here and now that I have been rooting for him since learning of the incident where it was revealed that he misunderstood Taskmaster wanting to infiltrate to the SHIELD Helicarrier because of stealing some pimp articles and, moreover, was totally unquestioning about it, to the utter consternation of Taskmaster.Teemunoreply@blogger.com