tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post3355328301773357189..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining Phoenix: The Untold Story #1Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-46214007396854824572023-02-05T15:45:46.715-06:002023-02-05T15:45:46.715-06:00"Yeah, it's always tough to compare an ac..."Yeah, it's always tough to compare an actual story to one that exists only in the form of vague ideas espoused in interviews, but I feel like even if the full story had played out its string, it still wouldn't have been as dramatic as what we got."<br /><br />True, though technically What If? Volume 2 #32-33 barring the fact that the story uses the retcon of Phoenix copying Jean, is arguably the original plan given publication.Antiyonderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17628394725948164401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-82683682696124816042022-06-20T15:13:16.933-05:002022-06-20T15:13:16.933-05:00In 1985 not Jean Grey in the moon. XDIn 1985 not Jean Grey in the moon. XDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-4183168824621416122022-06-20T15:10:09.819-05:002022-06-20T15:10:09.819-05:00"X men annual 4" horrible!?! 😳 Sic! I&#..."X men annual 4" horrible!?! 😳 Sic! I'ts not Limbo, Is the Inferno! XDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-53969969909305684512022-06-20T15:02:39.332-05:002022-06-20T15:02:39.332-05:00The end of Number 137 resized in 1985. The origina...The end of Number 137 resized in 1985. The original ending mor logical for the future of the X men. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-23121846055078627312019-12-29T02:39:41.623-06:002019-12-29T02:39:41.623-06:00Sorry I'm super late to this (just discovered ...Sorry I'm super late to this (just discovered this blog a few days ago) but I wanted to point something out. <br /><br />I read Beast's comments on going back to Earth and getting the Avengers. <br /><br />Now at first I thought "That could be cool. The X-Men and the AVENGERS vs the Imperial Guard. The heroes WIN, and Jean goes off to the Avengers to learn with cosmic guys like Thor and Moondragon to use her newfound godhood!"<br /><br />Then just for fun I looked it up. You know what issue of Avengers shipped the same month as X-Men #137? Avengers #199. The one right before the infamous "Ms. Marvel gives birth to Marcus" issue.<br /><br />Hooooly geez oh man. The likely end result of that would be we have Phoenix tear into Marcus like she did Mastermind and we're right back where we started. From a character standpoint as well as a CREATIVE standpoint (Claremont famously rebuts Avengers #200 in a rant he writes for Carol in Annual 10) it's a loop right back to Uncanny #136, for better or worse. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-5658470083733686412013-02-07T09:56:30.373-06:002013-02-07T09:56:30.373-06:00@NietzscheIsDead
...the new writer on Iron Fist (...@NietzscheIsDead<br /><br /><i>...the new writer on Iron Fist (I'm blanking on exactly who it was at the moment) wanted to keep Sabretooth for that title, and won the debate. So Claremont couldn't bring Sabretooth over to X-Men until the Iron Fist comic was cancelled, freeing the character back up. </i><br /><br />Ah, that does make sense, and the timing fits as well (Sabretooth not appearing in <i>X-Men</i> until after <i>Power Man and Iron Fist</i> was cancelled). Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-13086288940551753342013-02-02T22:28:14.826-06:002013-02-02T22:28:14.826-06:00Ok, so I know I'm way late on this response, b...Ok, so I know I'm way late on this response, but I actually know why it took so long for Wolverine and Sabretooth to meet on-panel. The reason is precisely because Claremont introduced Sabretooth in <i>Iron Fist</i> #14. When he left the title, Claremont intended to take Sabretooth with him and have him appear in <i>X-Men</i>, obviously as early as #150; however, the new writer on <i>Iron Fist</i> (I'm blanking on exactly who it was at the moment) wanted to keep Sabretooth for that title, and won the debate. So Claremont couldn't bring Sabretooth over to <i>X-Men</i> until the <i>Iron Fist</i> comic was cancelled, freeing the character back up.NietzscheIsDeadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03768198450373297438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-74556570200927418202012-01-16T11:02:43.729-06:002012-01-16T11:02:43.729-06:00@Blam: I'm entirely sure that the emoticon was...@Blam: <i>I'm entirely sure that the emoticon was a friendly smile and not a knowing smirk, but, y'know, don't hold your breath. </i><br /><br />Most definitely a friendly smile. <br /><br /><i>That's a latter-day (from my perspective, although it's "only" half my life ago) series that I particularly look forward to re-reading — in... oh, let's say 2047. 8^)</i><br /><br />I've only read it in bits and pieces, but it's something I want to revisit, and read in its entirety, at some point as well.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-50637382823320672102012-01-13T16:45:15.125-06:002012-01-13T16:45:15.125-06:00Since we're not letting this comments page res...<br>Since we're not letting this comments page rest, by the way: I meant to add that in addition to the revitalized layouts on <i>Namor</i> the use of Duoshade board was a really neat change of pace for Byrne. That's a latter-day (from my perspective, although it's "only" half my life ago) series that I particularly look forward to re-reading — in... oh, let's say 2047. 8^)<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-651911151085947582012-01-13T16:39:40.153-06:002012-01-13T16:39:40.153-06:00Teebore: And I continue to look forward to that. :...<br>Teebore: <i>And I continue to look forward to that. :)</i><br /><br />I'm entirely sure that the emoticon was a friendly smile and not a knowing smirk, but, y'know, don't hold your breath. Given that there's still a lot of <i>physical</i> work to be done — never mind all the reading 'n' writing — and that it's going so slowly that shorter-term priorities keep getting in the way, it's gonna be a while. I do appreciate the sentiment, though; believe you me, there are days when I can't wait to get that ball formally rolling and I hate that it's not happening faster.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-67664508111876082022012-01-13T15:38:55.085-06:002012-01-13T15:38:55.085-06:00@Blam: ...based on memories of how I felt reading ...@Blam: <i>...based on memories of how I felt reading stuff that in many cases I've not reread in quite some time, although as you know I'll be rectifying that fact in grand fashion when all the proper ducks are in a row.<br /></i><br /><br />And I continue to look forward to that. :)Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-88676569984660902972012-01-08T22:33:54.137-06:002012-01-08T22:33:54.137-06:00Teebore: Everything before [Next Men], including F...<br>Teebore: <i>Everything before [</i>Next Men<i>], including </i>FF<i> and his Superman stuff, I still really like.</i><br /><br />I think that Byrne went pretty minimalist in <i>FF</i> during the time that he was inking his own rough layouts, as well as during <i>Alpha Flight</i> — the latter much more disappointing than the former. Maybe I've mentioned this before, but <i>AF</i> #17 reprints good chunks of <i>X-Men</i> #109 and does Byrne's art no favor in the direct comparison. But as I said earlier Byrne's <i>FF</i> collaborations with Al Gordon and Jerry Ordway towards the end of his run are favorites; I was also, no pun intended, enamored of Byrne's pencils on <i>Namor</i>, inked by Bob Wiacek, in terms of not just the rendering but the different approach to page layouts. I'd noticed in <i>Superman</i> and <i>Action Comics</i> that Byrne's writer brain wasn't communicating so well with his artist brain sometimes, as we got scrunched close-up panels of talking heads with lots of dialogue a little too often, but as you say the art was still generally appealing — certainly much more so than any of his revisitations of the title character since then. What struck me during <i>Next Men</i>, just to repeat myself again, is that the equivalent of "character actors" and literally the furniture itself were getting more care than the idealized superhero leads.<br /><br />All of this is a generalization, of course, and based on memories of how I felt reading stuff that in many cases I've not <i>re</i>read in quite some time, although as you know I'll be rectifying that fact in grand fashion when all the proper ducks are in a row.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-53469666624395439742012-01-05T10:59:58.694-06:002012-01-05T10:59:58.694-06:00@Blam: I realized by the time Next Men came around...@Blam: <i>I realized by the time Next Men came around that he quite possibly was either burned out (yeah, yeah, no pun intended) or just too comfortable with the usual superhero stuff...</i><br /><br />That's the point I tend to see as the dividing line too. Everything before that, including <i>FF</i> and his Superman stuff, I still really like. Post <i>Next Men</i> it became, as you said, a lot more minimalist. <br /><br /><i>I'd love in many ways to have had the breadth and depth of knowledge available today at my fingertips as a kid, but there's a lot to said for that old-school sense of discovery on spinner racks, in musty back-issue bins in hole-in-the-wall shops, and at conventions.</i><br /><br />Definitely. I <i>adore</i> the old Marvel Handbooks to this day, and much of that is nostalgia for when I first discovered them in a friends basement, and I was blown away by having a friggin' <i>encyclopedia</i> of this stuff (or at least a few issues' worth) at my fingertips. <br /><br /><i>Did Claremont push back against the significant input that Byrne was making, or did Byrne get frustrated with not simply being able to flat-out write the stories, or both, or neither...? </i><br /><br />I have some quotes I'll run with issue #143 that delve into that a little bit. What it sounds to me is that it came down to a difference of opinion regarding "credit". Claremont, it seems, was more willing to go with a general "you're the artist, I'm the writer, we're both the plotters", regardless of the level of contribution of either to the plot, whereas Byrne was more concerned with applying specific credit where it was due; if he felt he was responsible for the majority of the plot, than he didn't want to share that credit. <br /><br />Claremont's argument seems to be in comics, especially Marvel-style comics, it's difficult to impossible to determine who is responsible for what, and going with the more general credits covers all the bases. Whereas Byrne viewed it more qualitatively: if a majority of the issue was *my* idea, then I'm the plotter. If it's 50/50, we share credit etc. But of course, then you get into arguments over whose ideas were whose, etc. <br /><br />@Chris K.:<i>My LCS in St. Louis in the late 1980s actually had this original page for sale for a while. I remember that the Angel figure was a patch pasted on the artboard (...or was it an original Byrne Gladiator with a big old rubber cement smear on it?? Aggh... going senile... can't remember stuff... At any rate, I remember having the conversation with the store owner about the evident art change.)<br /></i><br /><br />Very cool!Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-77789141256683956032011-12-30T18:09:12.648-06:002011-12-30T18:09:12.648-06:00Matt,
"...there's a panel of Cyclops sp...Matt, <br /><br />"...there's a panel of Cyclops speaking with a very crudely drawn Gladiator..."<br /><br />Yeah, that Gladiator figure DEFINITELY shows the hand of Vinnie Colletta, which means it had to have been done by Marvel's art department. Your speculation is identical to the one I always had.<br /><br />My LCS in St. Louis in the late 1980s actually had this original page for sale for a while. I remember that the Angel figure was a patch pasted on the artboard (...or was it an original Byrne Gladiator with a big old rubber cement smear on it?? Aggh... going senile... can't remember stuff... At any rate, I remember having the conversation with the store owner about the evident art change.)Chris Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16603951031566557666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-26705180046793452792011-12-30T11:51:36.661-06:002011-12-30T11:51:36.661-06:00Blam -- "...his awkward flat-hand thing...&qu...Blam -- "...<b>his awkward flat-hand thing</b>..."<br /><br />Funny, I'm pretty sure I know exactly what you're describing here, and even though I agree that it's awkward, I really like it for some reason. In fact, years ago when I fancied myself an amateur artist, I used to try to duplicate it in my own drawings!Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-58678098592928028432011-12-30T00:29:32.426-06:002011-12-30T00:29:32.426-06:00Teebore: Also interesting in that Byrne has always...<br>Teebore: <i>Also interesting in that Byrne has always said "DoFP" was almost entirely his idea, in terms of plot, so whenever those notes were written, he must not have come up with it/run it by Claremont/had it approved yet.</i><br /><br />The one and only (I think) issue where Byrne is given sole plot credit is coming up next week — although Claremont is still listed as "writer". I'm not sure there's a story behind that, and if there is I don't remember it, but it's curious that Byrne's last issues were that, an Alpha Flight two-parter, and then two issues that as you say above he takes substantial credit for. Did Claremont push back against the significant input that Byrne was making, or did Byrne get frustrated with not simply being able to flat-out write the stories, or both, or neither...? <br /><br />I love that Marv Wolfman and George Pérez have remained such good friends since their symbiotic collaboration on <i>New Teen Titans</i> and <i>Crisis</i>.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-87233724558434602892011-12-30T00:17:54.303-06:002011-12-30T00:17:54.303-06:00Me: I just stared at it like I was Indiana Jones a...<br>Me: <i>I just stared at it like I was Indiana Jones and I had just stumbled on the Rosetta Stone in an Egyptian pawn shop.</i><br /><br />Teebore: <i>Man, I remember that feeling. And I miss that feeling, ... I remember walking into a comic shop or magazine store or some shoved-in-a-hotel-conference-room "convention" and stumbling across an issue in a way that felt like I'd found the Holy Grail. It was a great feeling.</i><br /><br />I'm glad that you do remember that feeling. Not being a kid today (at heart, yeah, but that's very different than the experience of actually growing up in today's culture), I can't know for sure, but I suspect that some of it <i>does</i> have to do with the way technology has changed access to information, and the way the comic-book industry has changed, as opposed to just being older and having resources that come with age irrespective of the times we live in as adults. I'd love in many ways to have had the breadth and depth of knowledge available today at my fingertips as a kid, but there's a lot to said for that old-school sense of discovery on spinner racks, in musty back-issue bins in hole-in-the-wall shops, and at conventions.<br /><br />Michael: <i>Claremont and Cockrum turned out some great stuff after 150. No one does the Brood better...</i><br /><br />I like most of Cockrum's second run better than his first. The freshness of the early "New" X-Men stories isn't there, of course, but his art as inked (sometimes finished from breakdowns) by Josef Rubinstein and then Bob Wiacek is generally more appealing; it's also neat to see him and Claremont back together now that they and we all have a greater sense of familiarity with the characters. And I'm an unabashed fan of "Kitty's Fairy Tale" — which I know our host is not.<br /><br />We'll have to agree to disagree on the Brood, though, because to me Paul Smith does the Brood best.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-88764113259819068772011-12-30T00:00:38.162-06:002011-12-30T00:00:38.162-06:00Me: Don't you think Logan would just tear off ...<br>Me: <i>Don't you think Logan would just tear off the blasted mask?</i><br /><br />Teebore: <i>Ha! I hadn't thought of that, but I'm ashamed I didn't.</i><br /><br />I admit that I could almost rationalize it as being like a totem or something for Logan — his costume could sort-let him mentally or emotionally compartmentalize his berserker rage, so that while wearing it he felt free to use his fighting abilities without losing control — but we see him in action in "civvies" far too often (as well as, of course, losing control whle in costume). And no writer to my knowledge has ever introduced such a conceit. His usual everyday clothes are almost like ritualistic garb themselves, though — the fringed coat with lined collar, gloves, and cowboy hat. <br /><br />Man, I'm looking forward to the brown-and-orange costume coming in. I know that Wolverine has long since gone back to variations on this blue-and-yellow one, but I've always preferred that first "new" one (not counting the adjustments made to his mask between his <i>Hulk</i> debut and <i>Giant-Size X-Men</i> #1).<br /><br />Teebore: <i>Okay, you're on fire tonight!</i><br /><br />You're are <i>literally</i> too kind.<br /><br />Teebore: <i>I've made clear my appreciation for Austin's inks (heh), but the fact that he's applying them to Byrne's pencils is what makes it all so great.</i><br /><br />Byrne had some quirks that bothered me even back in the day and have lessened my enjoyment of his work over time — the way he rendered most women's lips, his awkward flat-hand thing — but he really could draw. Like I said, I think that he got too minimalist for his own good for a while, especially when inking his own work, but Austin was not the last inker to suit him; Al Gordon and especially Jerry Ordway complemented him very differently than Austin but very well on <i>Fantastic Four</i> towards the end of his run. I realized by the time <i>Next Men</i> came around that he quite possibly was either burned out (yeah, yeah, no pun intended) or just too comfortable with the usual superhero stuff, because his non-idealized supporting characters and stuff like set decoration that many comic-book artists can't be bothered with were actually more detailed, more engaging than the generic main cast.<br /><br />VW: <i>porati</i> — Low-income but well-educated book lovers.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-50990193797680013602011-12-29T16:27:55.111-06:002011-12-29T16:27:55.111-06:00@Matt: That's just speculation, of course, but...@Matt: <i>That's just speculation, of course, but it's the most likely possibility I can come up with... </i><br /><br />Works for me. I noticed that panel as well, but never got around to mentioning it. Once again adding to my desire to just post every altered panel...<br /><br />@Michael: <i>but Claremont and Cockrum turned out some great stuff after 150. No one does the Brood better...</i><br /><br />I definitely like the second half of their run better than the first (particularly the Xavier/Magneto backstory, and the second half of the Brood story). I just really don't like the Doom/Arcade story, and the Magneto story in #150 never quite feels as epic as Claremont, to his credit, tries to sell it, especially in light of knowing that, had things turned out differently, #150 would have been the climax of the Phoenix saga.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-6936070731536184602011-12-23T19:04:42.315-06:002011-12-23T19:04:42.315-06:00@Teebore I definitely agree with that sentiment. ...@Teebore <i>I definitely agree with that sentiment. I'm not a huge fan of Cockrum's second run (everything between Byrne's departure and Paul Smith), though Cockrum himself has little to do with it, which makes Byrne's departure even more bittersweet. And the X-Men vs. Ultron would have been a lot of fun.</i><br /><br />Whoa there. I'll admit, I enjoy Byrne's work much more than Cockrum's -- and I wish he'd stuck around through 150 because he and Claremont clearly had some great stories in the hopper -- but Claremont and Cockrum turned out some great stuff after 150. No one does the Brood better...Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-76628228118268963482011-12-23T13:00:53.505-06:002011-12-23T13:00:53.505-06:00I flipped through this issue last night and notice...I flipped through this issue last night and noticed that on the page right before the X-Men and Imperial Guard beam down to the moon, there's a panel of Cyclops speaking with a very crudely drawn Gladiator. It really doesn't look like the work of Byrne or Austin. Anyone know what the deal is with that? In the originally published version of that same panel, Cyclops is speaking with Angel, thanking him (and Beast) for sticking with the X-Men.<br /><br />I'm guessing that maybe the panel originally featured Gladiator, but when the eleventh hour changes were made to the issue, he was changed on the art board itself to Angel -- then when "The Untold Story" was published, they realized they had pasted over the original art or just didn't have it anymore or something, and so had to get someone around the office to re-draw Gladiator in order to restore the unpublished issue as originally conceived.<br /><br />That's just speculation, of course, but it's the most likely possibility I can come up with...Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-63225873134816275942011-12-23T11:09:07.244-06:002011-12-23T11:09:07.244-06:00The bad news is that I haven't done so already...<i>The bad news is that I haven't done so already and we're almost up to Byrne's first departure from X-Men here, but the good news is that this series of posts of yours is going to take forever and I also asked him about Hidden Years as well as some other, later aborted X-Men projects, so maybe I'll be able to pass along some more relevant info yet.</i><br /><br />Hey, any behind-the-scenes info you may be privy to is <i>always</i> welcome, whether it lines up with where these posts are at or not. <br /><br /><i>While Austin complemented him perfectly, Byrne/Austin art being Byrne/Austin art isn't all that made it special.</i><br /><br />Good point. I've made clear my appreciation for Austin's inks (heh), but the fact that he's applying them to Byrne's pencils is what makes it all so great. <br /><br /><i>. I probably didn't hear of it until I got my hands on the X-Men Companion volumes or some other fan publications </i><br /><br />That would make sense. Not surprisingly, both <i>Companion</i> volumes talk about "Dark Phoenix" a lot, and they're both relatively contemporaneous to the story. <br /><br /><i>I just stared at it like I was Indiana Jones and I had just stumbled on the Rosetta Stone in an Egyptian pawn shop.</i><br /><br />Man, I remember that feeling. And I miss that feeling, though in this case its absence as more to do with being an adult with greater knowledge/resources than the usual "comics these days" wistfulness, but I remember walking into a comic shop or magazine store or some shoved-in-a-hotel-conference-room "convention" and stumbling across an issue in a way that felt like I'd found the Holy Grail. It was a great feeling. <br /><br /><i>If you go by the straight indicia title the Phoenix: The Untold Story one-shot is officially just Phoenix #1.</i><br /><br />Huh. I had no idea. I wonder if later <i>Phoenix</i> #1s (I'm pretty sure Rachel got a limited series or oneshot at some point...) are titled in the indicia as "volume 2"? I'll have to keep an eye out for that. <br /><br /><i>At least we didn't get a scene of </i>him<i> reflecting on the love he once felt for Jean.</i><br /><br />I have no idea what you're talking about. La la la la la. :) <br /><br /><i>It's not a story that was likely to have been cobbled together by Claremont & Byrne after #137 was revised, although clearly it would've had different ramifications in a continuity where Jean survived, so I wonder when the germs of it began to percolate.</i><br /><br />Especially given that I've read always read the Senator Kelly/Shaw discussion about Sentinels in issue #135 to be a setup for "Days of Future Past", so they must have had some inkling by then. <br /><br />Also interesting in that Byrne has always said "DoFP" was almost entirely his idea, in terms of plot, so whenever those notes were written, he must not have come up with it/run it by Claremont/had it approved yet. <br /><br /><i>Wolverine and Sabretooth didn't meet until </i>Mutant Massacre?<br /><br />Yeah, that was their first meeting, which is why those issues were so bloody expensive when I was a kid...<br /><br />It is odd that it took long, especially since it seems like Claremont had settled on the "Sabretooth is Wolverine's father" idea as far back as Sabretooth's first appearance in <i>Iron Fist</i> #14.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-76447827618973764692011-12-23T11:09:02.743-06:002011-12-23T11:09:02.743-06:00@Matt: Whether or not he articulated his concerns ...@Matt: <i>Whether or not he articulated his concerns that way in 1979-80, I don't know. I get the impression that a lot of his orders back then were given and expected to be followed without any explanations behind them.</i><br /><br />That's always been my impression too, which is, of course, terribly frustrating. People are much more likely to do what you ask of them, even if they don't like, if they at least understand <i>why</i> you want them to do it. <br /><br /><i>I liked his older style better. </i><br /><br />Ditto.<br /><br />@Blam: <i>I really appreciate the generous helping of art excerpts from the #137 that wasn't</i><br /><br />No problemo. I had to really fight the urge to just post every panel that was even slightly different. But I figured that might get a little too unwieldy.<br /><br /><i>Don't you think Logan would just tear off the blasted mask?</i><br /><br />Ha! I hadn't thought of that, but I'm ashamed I didn't. You're right though: who exactly is he hiding from? <br /><br /><i>Interrogative: Get it? Interrogative: Is this thing on?"</i><br /><br />Ha!<br /><br /><i>Did you know that he lost them due to injuries suffered in X-Men #119?</i><br /><br />Okay, you're on fire tonight! You're killing me here! :)Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-38583867734808301432011-12-22T19:08:57.717-06:002011-12-22T19:08:57.717-06:00Matt: Now I'm curious when Wolverine first ca...<br>Matt: <i> Now I'm curious when Wolverine first called Cyclops "Scott" in the real continuity... Whenever it was, I'm sure it wasn't as resonant as this occasion would've been.</i><br /><br />I don't know when it was, either, but unless it was a very tender or personal moment like this he probably called him "Scotty".<br /><br />Matt: <i>a few years ago someone dug up Byrne's handwritten notes on some of the issues that would've followed</i><br /><br />That's a fascinating little document. Of course it was drawn up in early 1979 at least, so it's no wonder that even issues that Byrne did end up drawing don't sync up exactly between this page and the reality, but what's really surprising to me is no "Days of Future Past". It's not a story that was likely to have been cobbled together by Claremont & Byrne <i>after</i> #137 was revised, although clearly it would've had different ramifications in a continuity where Jean survived, so I wonder when the germs of it began to percolate. [Blam's Percolated Germs uses only the finest microorganisms in its patented filtration process for a smooth, bold flavor. Remember: It's not quality percolated germs unless it's Blam's Percolated Germs!]<br /><br />Wolverine and Sabretooth didn't meet until <i>Mutant Massacre</i>? I'd stopped reading by then, but I was well aware while I <i>was</i> still reading that Chris Claremont intended for Sabretooth to be at Wolverine's father. Also, I remember them meeting in a <i>Classic X-Men</i> backup that had to be in the first couple of years of that title (yep; Wikipedia says #10).<br /><br />Also fascinating is "New team: Angel, Iceman, Ariel" — which doesn't quite jibe with the whole new-students subplot/spinoff that circulated as the reason for Kitty's introduction.<br /><br />Michael: <i> The hero descends into a villain and dies that way. </i><br /><br />Only by dint of her heroic moral compass rising to the surface one last time...<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-91707129012996022862011-12-22T19:06:24.102-06:002011-12-22T19:06:24.102-06:00Dr. Bitz: Wouldn't it have been better if Scot...<br> Dr. Bitz: <i>Wouldn't it have been better if Scott was forcibly restrained fighting to get free as the psychic surgery occurred?</i><br /><br />Teebore: <i>I understand the desire to have some X-Man try to stop the Shi'ar and having someone else toss out honor in order to highlight how awesomely honorable the X-Men are, but I feel like Cyclops of all people shouldn't have been the person arguing it</i><br /><br />I'm with both of you on Scott's resignation coming off wrong — maybe he's the stiff teacher's-pet rules guy, but in this of all circumstances emotion would surely take over. The problem is that someone in the scene should be arguing that they gave their word, and I can see any or all of them (even if not especially Logan) doing just that <i>if this weren't Jean</i>; Professor X can't take the line because of his complicated relationship with Lilandra. At least we didn't get a scene of <i>him</i> reflecting on the love he once felt for Jean.<br /><br />Teebore: <i>The idea, I think, is that her saying no and living happily ever after would mark the end of her role in the book, and thus the end of her story, so there wouldn't need to be the need for further conflict.</i><br /><br />For a while, sure, and perhaps even as long as Claremont was on the book, but this is serialized superhero soap opera... Given that Jean and the Phoenix Force have <i>both</i> come back, the latter apparently more tied to Jean than to Rachel at that (clearly I've not read the stories), it's a sure bet that the same would've happened had Jean/Phoenix never died in #137 anyway, regardless of the state she was left in and whatever happened in #150. In fact had Claremont really kept Scott and Jean out of the limelight, it's entirely likely that <i>X-Factor</i> would've happened in this alternate-#137 world we're speaking of, given that it did happen in world where Jean had to be brought back to do so — which you'd think is the bigger hurdle than simply reinstating her original telekinetic abilities; I can think of ways to renege on the whole thing, like Jean slowly and mysteriously dying without access to her mutant powers or the Shi'ar discovering that the M'kraan Crystal was becoming unstable without a tune-up from the Phoenix power.<br /><br />VW: <i>suclacer</i> — A seductive female demon with a sneaker fetish.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.com