tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post291751592072972642..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining Wolverine #31Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-51156314597763536782015-08-25T04:29:37.377-05:002015-08-25T04:29:37.377-05:00Well, Teeb, you know how insufferable we in your r...Well, Teeb, you know how insufferable we in your readship can be with the "other" way. ;) Like, I'm accustomimg myself to post-Onslaught UNCANNY, and I didn't even have to stop pondering why Franklin is so worried about Cable's wellbeing. Them Richardses stick together. ;)<br /><br />Mostly I was thinking about the total (felt) discrepancy between Claremont's Ogun/Carol Danvers spy background versus Hama-era Weapon X filmset memory implant factory and Wolvie's perceived amnesia.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-60244241566270878572015-08-24T13:21:34.613-05:002015-08-24T13:21:34.613-05:00@Matt: I can't understand why he's not mo...@Matt: <i> I can't understand why he's not more respected for his writing, and why, according to Hama himself, he seemed to have such a hard time finding work outside of G.I. JOE (I think I recall he took WOLVERINE because nobody else wanted it at the time).</i><br /><br />Ditto. I'm also surprised to hear nobody wanted <i>Wolverine</i>. It's not like editorial was forcing it to march in step with <i>X-Men</i>, and you'd think the opportunity for royalties and whatnot on such a popular character would be enticing. <br /><br />@Jason: <i> This Wolverine run in particular is pretty undervalued, I guess because it is a 90s X-book. Chris Sims, who never passes up a chance to praise Hama's GI Joe, once wrote off his Wolverine in an aside.</i><br /><br />Yeah, like Mike said, Sims can be pretty insufferable when it comes to acknowledging that maybe someone could have a valid opinion on something that differs from his. You're right that this run in general seems undervalued. I think, in general, people tend to remember/think of it in terms of the whackier, 90sish stuff towards the end (like Genesys and Noseless Wolverine) while forgetting the more solid stuff from the beginning. Heck, even the post-adamantium-losing stuff, from #75 up to when "Age of Apocalypse" starts is pretty solid, but it all gets overshadowed by the dubious Onslaught-era developments. <br /><br />@Mike: <i> I wish he could have gotten another chance but I doubt the big-2 want anything to do with him. It's a shame because he could probably do some great work on a book like Green Arrow or Heroes for Hire.</i><br /><br />Ditto. I'd also like to see his take on a SHIELD book (which is what GI Joe was going to be in the first place), or just something totally random, like, oh, Daredevil. <br /><br />@Teemu: <i>If I may propose a thing for the blog for WOLVERINE issues, there could be a "Pluggin' the memory implants of the ol' Canucklehead" section for the instances where Hama downright contradicts what Claremont had previously told of Logan's history. Because that's where the actual harm was done to the character as I knew him.</i><br /><br />We'll see if my recollection is off as we go along (since I've never actually read the Hama-implant issues, just the contemporaneous X-Men stuff), but I feel like most of Hama's retcons-via-implants didn't so much contradict Claremont's history as add to it/embelish it/present it in a new light. For example, he didn't wipe out the whole "Sabretooth hunts Wolverine on his birthday and killed Silver Fox" thing from <i>Wolverine</i> #10, he just revealed that Silver Fox survived and the whole thing was staged - which isn't quite the same as saying "nope, never happened". <br /><br />Like I said, we'll see. I could be wrong. But we'll keep track of that stuff, one way or the other. <br /><br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-71999697378573351792015-08-20T04:49:26.267-05:002015-08-20T04:49:26.267-05:00"I gather the era of the series with this gen..."I gather the era of the series with this general feel only lasts until about a year down the line, though, publishing time, when the new Adjectiveless X-Men launches."<br /><br />**Yeah, almost exactly. To me, issue 43 is the last of the unbroken run of Hama/Silvestri greatness that begins with this issue. After that, things get a little spotty with the whole "origin"/"Weapon X"/memory-implant stuff interfering. <br /><br />I'm a big fan of the "everything but the kitchen sink" trilogy in Silvestri's last three issues (55-57), but there's no denying that by that point the series is much more "90s-X-book"-y, more bright and glossy and primary-colored, than it was in the first year.<br /><br />"I’m already liking this grittier art, with its definite Buscema influence, more than Silvestri & Green on Uncanny"<br /><br />***I prefer them on Claremont's stuff overall (probably not surprising), but for what it's worth, Claremont agrees with you. He's got a quote in the "Comics Creators on X-Men" book about how when he saw Silvestri's work on the Wolverine solo title, he felt envious, i.e., "Why couldn't I get that out of him?"Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-55291721384480607682015-08-19T12:30:36.416-05:002015-08-19T12:30:36.416-05:00 Blam, there is a bit coming up in issue 35 that I... Blam, there is a bit coming up in issue 35 that I think you will appreciate. :)Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-36653713997345971162015-08-15T07:44:33.565-05:002015-08-15T07:44:33.565-05:00I guess it’s possible that Hama intended this, but...<br>I guess it’s possible that Hama intended this, but doubtful since there’s no point made of it being wrong: Logan’s first-person caption misattributes the author of the poem he slightly misquotes on the splash page. Carl Sandburg, not Robert Frost, wrote “The fog comes on little cat feet.”<br /><br /><i>// Silvestri & Green are fine, transitioning smoothly from </i>Uncanny X-Men<i>, but the plot here isn't terribly complex; it's essentially an issue-long fight between Wolverine and some mostly generic Yakuza goons. //</i><br /><br />I’m already liking this grittier art, with its definite Buscema influence, more than Silvestri & Green on <i>Uncanny</i>. While I’ve never read what’s to come in Hama’s run — at least not ’til a stretch of issues a few years down the road, around <i>Fatal Attractions</i>, flipped through at the comics shop where I worked — if the series continues along in this fashion I’d certainly deem it better than what little of the other ’90s X-Family stuff I recall from the period. I gather the era of the series with this general feel only lasts until about a year down the line, though, publishing time, when the new Adjectiveless <i>X-Men</i> launches.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-74587741846622630602015-08-14T19:41:59.465-05:002015-08-14T19:41:59.465-05:00I really want to read Nth Man.I really want to read Nth Man.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-30073234218111983662015-08-14T18:44:38.922-05:002015-08-14T18:44:38.922-05:00Mike -- "I think Larry Hama's reputation ...Mike -- "<b>I think Larry Hama's reputation suffered after a poor run on Generation X and a disastrous run on Batman.</b>"<br /><br />I never read Hama's BATMAN, but I think I may have been the only one who liked his GEN X. But that may have been more due to Terry Dodson on art, though I think he came along near the end of Hama's time on the book. But heck, I didn't even mind that "Pooka" thing. The key is to imagine its dialogue in the voice of Bill Murray.<br /><br />(Of course I haven't read those issues since they first came out, so it's entirely possible I'd dislike them nowadays. I liked a lot of Marvel's output in the late nineties which hasn't all stood the test of time.)Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-16020965140914557392015-08-14T02:44:57.009-05:002015-08-14T02:44:57.009-05:00The guilt for liking Hama springs mostly from the ...The guilt for liking Hama springs mostly from the fact that I have no particular love whatsoever for Lobdell and Nicieza, Claremont's successors on the main titles. It's actually pretty insane, now that I actually think about it.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-60254961943512395492015-08-14T02:36:50.415-05:002015-08-14T02:36:50.415-05:00Jason, to quote myself from the comments for the X...Jason, to quote myself from the comments for the X-amination of UNCANNY #257:<br /><br /><i>LLL had a knack for time travel, among other things, at least when Zoe Culloden pops up eventually on WOLVERINE. So if the futuristic implication wasn't done on purpose here, then Larry Hama has just firmly secured the throne of the maintainer and builder-on of Claremont's legacy as far as I'm concerned.<br /><br />Ha, the man will taking more cues from Claremont's UNCANNY and specifically this arc than from other writers' WOLVERINE of the same era.</i><br /><br />So the point you make is not only the correct one but one that I personally cherish and hold in high regard.<br /><br />I actually was contemplating on mentioning in my comment the fact that the Weapon X program segments of Hama's Wolverine collide with the instantaneously post-Claremont X-MEN #4-5 with Maverick and Creed popping up as the past associates of Logan. I should've perhaps worded it so that "in Hama's issues is contradicted". It should of course not me held against Hama that he ties a solo book to what's happening on the main title. So the intention was not to put Hama down but just to wail&rail at the backstory changes.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-91040577166521115922015-08-13T22:48:45.839-05:002015-08-13T22:48:45.839-05:00(My point being, Hama was not just good, but parti...(My point being, Hama was not just good, but particularly good for the Claremont fans in the audience. Until the memory-implant stuff of course, but that was due to editorial directives, from what I understand. Hama was never too keen on having to do that stuff, I don't think.)Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-46071911425196163382015-08-13T22:46:04.810-05:002015-08-13T22:46:04.810-05:00Hama and Claremont were pretty good pals, from wha...Hama and Claremont were pretty good pals, from what I understand. And Hama referenced a lot of Claremont's Wolverine stuff: The Hand, the Silver Samurai/Black Blade, Mariko's pledge to cut her criminal ties, the Wolverine/Deathstrike rivalry, Gateway, Cylla Markham ... and in these early issues, all the Madripoor stuff of course. Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-31052455603525040872015-08-13T21:10:20.376-05:002015-08-13T21:10:20.376-05:00I feel dirty for liking Hama's WOLVERINE, it&#...I feel dirty for liking Hama's WOLVERINE, it's kind of like I was cheating on Claremont. And of course, Wolverine + 90's is a word combo you instinctively freak out a little, even if you were there and feel that Wolverine went full 90's only in mid-decade or so and most of Hama's run was more like honorary 80's.<br /><br />If I may propose a thing for the blog for WOLVERINE issues, there could be a "Pluggin' the memory implants of the ol' Canucklehead" section for the instances where Hama downright contradicts what Claremont had previously told of Logan's history. Because that's where the actual harm was done to the character as I knew him.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-72498370766410112302015-08-13T16:04:02.575-05:002015-08-13T16:04:02.575-05:00The Hama/ Silvestri/Green/et al run is the best th...The Hama/ Silvestri/Green/et al run is the best the series would ever have. Hama ably mixed down n ' dirty action with humor and occasional pathos while the art team had just enough flash without sacrificing the grit. This was a comic that felt like hard boiled men's fiction to my adolescent self. Later issues had their ups & downs (even with good artists like Mark Texiera and Adam Kubert) but the Silvestri years were awesome.<br /><br />I think Larry Hama's reputation suffered after a poor run on Generation X and a disastrous run on Batman. His Batman issues were universally mocked and panned. Creating one of the worst Bat-villain, Orca the Whale-Woman, didn't help. I wish he could have gotten another chance but I doubt the big-2 want anything to do with him. It's a shame because he could probably do some great work on a book like Green Arrow or Heroes for Hire.<br /><br />Jason- I'm pretty sure Chris Sims ignores most opinions that do not come from Chris Sims.<br /><br />- Mike LoughlinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-50447234632360870282015-08-13T14:03:54.050-05:002015-08-13T14:03:54.050-05:00I think I re-read this issue 100 times just in the...I think I re-read this issue 100 times just in the month it came out. <br /><br />Besides everything else, it was my first exposure to Brousseau's lettering. I believe he eventually went on to be the primary letterer of Mignola's Hellboy.<br /><br />I agree with Matt about Hama's place in the comics pantheon. This Wolverine run in particular is pretty undervalued, I guess because it is a 90s X-book. Chris Sims, who never passes up a chance to praise Hama's GI Joe, once wrote off his Wolverine in an aside. (I actually posted a comment to the article, saying that in fact Hama's run was seven years long and fairly significant to the character, but it was ignored. Whatcha gonna do?)<br />Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-87140345825096671692015-08-13T12:28:33.130-05:002015-08-13T12:28:33.130-05:00That comment from Silvestri about Hama is great, a...That comment from Silvestri about Hama is great, and is pretty much in line with everything else I've ever read about the guy. Hama seems to be universally loved within the comics world, at least by people who knew and worked with him in the eighties. And while I love his G.I. JOE (easily one of my all-time favorite extended comic book runs) and what bits of his WOLVERINE I've read (I didn't get on board until some time later, after "Fatal Attractions"), I can't understand why he's not more respected for his writing, and why, according to Hama himself, he seemed to have such a hard time finding work outside of G.I. JOE (I think I recall he took WOLVERINE because nobody else wanted it at the time).Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.com