tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post2042900238516245711..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining Onslaught: X-Men #1Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-75480768689016076762021-07-26T19:32:09.958-05:002021-07-26T19:32:09.958-05:00It may sound "so lazy and short-sighted (and ...It may sound "so lazy and short-sighted (and downright cynical in regards to the characters they'd been entrusted with)" but it also sounds rather typical of Marvel in this era. Over on the Spider-Man titles there were many storylines and mysteries in the 1990s where the writers and editors simply didn't know where they were ultimately going - the return of his parents, the identity of the fifth Green Goblin, a lot of the Clone Saga and so forth. Meanwhile Avengers the Crossing doesn't appear to have had a clear plan (or if it did it was known only to Mark Gruenwald and nobody found his notes). So the X-Traitor would be a typical part of this short term "make something up as you go along and leave it to your successor to sort out" approach.Tim Roll-Pickeringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12589024696145675963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-11897896162203499862021-04-11T06:36:33.101-05:002021-04-11T06:36:33.101-05:00Nice job by Ian on the banner and delightfully rel...Nice job by Ian on the banner and delightfully relatable anecdote re your first time reading the issue. Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-64748555953459297412021-03-14T16:22:17.702-05:002021-03-14T16:22:17.702-05:00It has bothered me for 25 years that the 'milk...It has bothered me for 25 years that the 'milk' in Franklin's glass is colored orange. :(Brian Fuscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16526869458827370949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-82143602291818802652021-03-06T22:02:06.529-06:002021-03-06T22:02:06.529-06:00Long time, first time here.
Are you from Minnesot...Long time, first time here. <br />Are you from Minnesota? If so, I as well!<br />Perhaps the comic shop you were struggling to recall was Leonard Nimoy's own Tekno Comics store..?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109544671519108174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-1316823270516211702021-03-04T15:10:51.106-06:002021-03-04T15:10:51.106-06:00Matt, that blurb sure would have been a mood kille...Matt, that blurb sure would have been a mood killer in a mid-90's comic book! I only had read the applicable bits of #12 because they had re-printed some of the stories of the pre-X-Men X-Men from the early X-MEN.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-51682200936986078932021-03-04T11:37:02.396-06:002021-03-04T11:37:02.396-06:00I should note that I agree; a good story is a good...I should note that I agree; a good story is a good story regardless of how the writer got there.<br /><br />I'm honestly not even sure where I got this idea in my head that the best comics are created by writers making it up as they go along, other than knowing that (as I said above) Lee and Romita did it that way on SPIDER-MAN, Roger Stern has said he created the Hobgoblin and started writing his first appearance without knowing who the villain really was (though he did figure it out halfway through writing the issue), and Larry Hama has said that he often didn't know how an issue of G.I. JOE would end until he got to the last page.<br /><br />(Though that last one could also be taken to mean that he knew where the story was going but simply didn't know where he would cut off the action until he reached the end of his allotted space.)<br /><br />The flip side of making it up as you go along is, to me, writers who over-plan. I remember reading a long time ago where Bendis said he was usually something like two years ahead of schedule on fully-written scripts when he was writing DAREDEVIL and ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN. That's insane to me; like, where's the room for improvisation and reacting to events in other titles? I've also read (though not sure if it's confirmed) that Jonathan Hickman apparently plans out his <b>entire run</b> on a given title from the beginning. That just feels so... I dunno, "clinical" to me. Like, from my perspective, it doesn't sound fun if you know what's going to happen and you're just following your own roadmap. Like, what's the point of doing five years (or whatever) worth of stories if you already have them essentially all written? I'd get really bored, really fast doing it that way.<br /><br />I guess I view writing a monthly, ongoing comic as something you're "supposed" to make up as you go, with no end point in sight -- which is, of course, the complete opposite of how I would view writing a novel or a movie, or a single season of a serialized TV show (or even a comic book limited series). In those cases, I absolutely expct the entire thing written in advance. But for a never-ending serialized comic, once a writer has established enough success that they feel secure in their position, that just seems wrong to me, somehow.<br /><br />(But of course, all of the above is why I am not a professional writer.)<br /><br />I'm curious -- how do you feel about the style of writing where someone will write the first scene and the final scene and then fill in everything in between? I believe the first time I encountered that was as a child when I read an interview with Don Rosa. He said he did his Duck comics that way. He would do the first page and he would do the last page, then he would do the story to link them together. I've read that some novelists do it that way as well. It seems like an interesting idea to me; you know where you're gonna start and you know where you're gonna finish -- and you presumably have a rough idea of how things will play out -- but you're leaving a lot of blank space in between to connect points A and B.<br /><br />"<b>Yeah, that's one of those weird bits you see in comics and TV sometimes, where two plots are unfolding at seemingly different paces, but are cut together in a way that makes it seem like they are occurring over the same amount of time/concurrently.</b>"<br /><br />True, and my first thought when I read that FF scene was, "Is this taking place at some other point in time?" -- but the fact that Onslaught freezes the X-Men and then leaves suggests to me that he actually did send his astral self to visit Franklin during that time.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-24735565602488827712021-03-04T10:59:56.268-06:002021-03-04T10:59:56.268-06:00Teemu, you sound like a blurb on the first page of...Teemu, you sound like a blurb on the first page of an old comic: "Hold it right there, True Believer! Before you go any further, you MUST read UNCANNY X-MEN #12! Don't say we didn't warn ya!" I love it.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-36542360804968025682021-03-04T10:57:52.848-06:002021-03-04T10:57:52.848-06:00Well she's married to Scott so she know's ...Well she's married to Scott so she know's that much better. <br /><br />Despite the permanent telepathic link I bet she's still berating him for not communicating with her.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-76288285548348668862021-03-03T19:51:24.766-06:002021-03-03T19:51:24.766-06:00I feel like this was a pretty decent start to the ...I feel like this was a pretty decent start to the Onslaught event. While it has its lulls it was nice to finally have momentum after months of titles treading water.<br /><br />The Jean Grey video replay with the new dialogue feeling the gaps doesn't really work for me. The flow and phrasings never felt natural to me. I know part of that is that the line had moved on since the original issue. It also reminds me of Obi-Wan's justification for claiming Anakin was betrayed by Vader. Still, it was nice to finally get a cap on the traitor storyline. Even if this feels anticlimactic.<br /><br />I agree with a previous poster who suggested that this event would probably have been better had it focused on the X-Men. Heroes Reborn could easily have been generated from an event within the relevant titles themselves. Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10082589040664926667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-80519655271641141432021-03-03T18:17:53.530-06:002021-03-03T18:17:53.530-06:00@Michael -
Excellent point re Storm. As a kid I r...@Michael - <br />Excellent point re Storm. As a kid I read from essentially the '91 relaunch until just before Legion Quest/AoA (bad stopping point, I know!), and I never understood why Storm was a team leader. She seemed so blah. But having gone back to read through the entire series, it's clear that the writers post-Claremont had no clue what made her interesting or what good stories for her were. <br /><br />I'm sad that the same is about to happen for Bishop too.ACChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14292052126532011526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-73512367803832837062021-03-03T18:09:41.036-06:002021-03-03T18:09:41.036-06:00Taking this in as someone who did not read it at t...Taking this in as someone who did not read it at the time, the hook as Professor X being the "traitor" via the Onslaught reveal is kind of a letdown. Traitor implies a specific intent to betray - Judas, Benedict Arnold, etc. Professor X had a psychic episode that went awry, and he eventually is physically removed from the manifestation at the end of the storyline, and fights against it. So he's not really a traitor, more like a possessed victim. <br /><br />And since Onslaught really has no defined powers or motives (other than just kill everyone on the planet) he's just not an interesting character. His name might as well be "MacGuffin" since his sole purpose at the end of this storyline is to relaunch Avengers and FF for Heroes Reborn. The thing that makes Galactus an interesting antagonist is not that he is all powerful. It's that he's the force of nature that is beyond good and evil, and humans/superheroes having to figure out how to overcome that is a challenge that presents opportunities for so many interesting storylines. <br /><br />Lastly, the Dark Beast cop-out just makes Dark Beast seem like the dumbest mutant around. I would have preferred that Jean or the Professor could detect that he is like the Beast we all know and love, but something is off, or his memories aren't right, or something like that - but not probe too deeply because he's an old friend/05 X-man. That would be more satisfying than "superman-badguy subconsciously blocked brain signals for several weeks to hide your identity for no discernable reason other than you too may be villanous."ACChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14292052126532011526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-39929044965208533722021-03-03T17:43:37.444-06:002021-03-03T17:43:37.444-06:00Sounds like you just picked next week's "...Sounds like you just picked next week's "Tales from the Archives" featured post! Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-75752311748849139602021-03-03T17:42:58.626-06:002021-03-03T17:42:58.626-06:00This is a long day for the X-Men, then! Counting X...<i>This is a long day for the X-Men, then! Counting X-MEN: ONSLAUGHT, that's four straight issues running across one day and night.</i><br /><br />That's a lot, but if you really think about, if everything since UNCANNY #322 happened over "several weeks", then the X-Men probably constantly have to have days like that. :P <br /><br /><i>So if that's the case, why are the Fantastic Four, including their young child, all hanging around the breakfast table?</i><br /><br />Yeah, that's one of those weird bits you see in comics and TV sometimes, where two plots are unfolding at seemingly different paces, but are cut together in a way that makes it seem like they are occurring over the same amount of time/concurrently. <br /><br />@Michael: <i>Bishop's trajectory after Onslaught reminds me of Storm's trajectory after the Blue/Gold relaunch.</i><br /><br />Yeah, you're right, it does seem like that. They each had a big, impactful, defining story (Storm, a couple, at least) and once they wrapped, they were just...kinda there.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-46894666279563054822021-03-03T17:38:24.830-06:002021-03-03T17:38:24.830-06:00Also, I would argue that the X-Men had a Galactus-...<i>Also, I would argue that the X-Men had a Galactus-level threat in Dark Phoenix</i><br /><br />I had the same thought. Recurring or not, it's not like they'd never fought someone on that scale before. <br /><br /><i>I’m sure you, Austin, don’t. I know you’ve voiced your distaste for this writing “style” over the years.</i><br /><br />Heh. No, I don't, though to be clear, in terms of *outcome*, I don't REALLY care: a good story is a good story, regardless of whether or not the writer had it planned out from the start or made it up as they went along. <br /><br />As a *writer*, I just can't fathom how anyone can operate like that (ESPECIALLY in a serial medium like this), but that's just me. I'm a planner and, in writing terms, a plotter (and I do believe you're MORE LIKELY to end up with a better story if you go into with some idea of where it's going, especially, again, in a serial medium like this), so that romanticized notion of comic book writing you describe would be like torture to me if I had to write like that. :) <br /><br /><i>Quite honestly, I think he should’ve died in this issue, giving his life to fulfill his destiny and prevent his future.</i><br /><br />Yeah, it really would have worked on multiple levels: give his character arc a noble finale, establish the stakes of the crossover, etc. And sadly, if they had killed him off here, it doesn't feel like we really would have missed out many great stories featuring the character later on. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-32520115010242130152021-03-03T17:04:44.306-06:002021-03-03T17:04:44.306-06:00Yeah, the pivot to becoming a larger MU story and ...Yeah, the pivot to becoming a larger MU story and setting up Heroes Reborn really hurts this one. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-9596423863876886482021-03-03T17:03:58.117-06:002021-03-03T17:03:58.117-06:00In her defense, upon believing, however falsely, t...In her defense, upon believing, however falsely, that the X-Men are dead, she did immediately proceed to call (via high-tech sci-fi superhero means) the X-Men's friends and allies to spread the word, which is definitely a step up for any of the X-Men. :) Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-78958035446286269482021-03-03T17:02:54.523-06:002021-03-03T17:02:54.523-06:00"Like Christmas morning" is definitely h..."Like Christmas morning" is definitely how it felt reading this for the first time back in the day. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-50862367493751931662021-03-03T16:21:29.439-06:002021-03-03T16:21:29.439-06:00Similarly, this issue introduces "Charlie&quo...<i>Similarly, this issue introduces "Charlie", Franklin Richards' "imaginary" friend, which will turn out to be a manifestation of Onslaught</i><br /><br />Yes, but: his visage obviously is very much that of young Charles, who we saw in UXM #12 where Xavier's (and Juggernaut's) origin was told. His appearance together with Juggernaut being Onslaught's first and special victim went long way in selling me Onslaught as the product of Xavier's frustrations.<br /><br />UXM #12 should be mandatory reading at this point for everyone, before you read further.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-84540857333013685852021-03-03T14:55:17.127-06:002021-03-03T14:55:17.127-06:00> Lastly, Bishop... Bishop was one of my favori...> Lastly, Bishop... Bishop was one of my favorite X-Men in the 90s. And today, he is still one of my favorite X-Men if we’re talking about the 90s. But I must sadly agree that nobody knew what do with him after his big moment here.<br /><br />Bishop's trajectory after Onslaught reminds me of Storm's trajectory after the Blue/Gold relaunch. No one seemed to know what to do with her after Claremont left, and she just was sort of _there_. Such is Bishop's fate from this point forward. In retrospect, I kind of wish he'd died saving the X-Men. It would have been an excellent end to his story and would have significantly raised the stakes going into the event.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665503542091489778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-83839550265559371892021-03-03T11:08:55.638-06:002021-03-03T11:08:55.638-06:00Jean could be secretly corrupting into Dark Phoeni...Jean could be secretly corrupting into Dark Phoenix again, if she's using her powers to change her wardrobe at will, like in the Proteus story, and Madelyne in the build-up for Inferno.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-80527107145686525892021-03-03T10:09:07.834-06:002021-03-03T10:09:07.834-06:00I did remember one more thing I wanted to comment ...I did remember one more thing I wanted to comment on: Jean. There's more confusion on her wardrobe here, as she's drawn in her street clothes emerging from the Z'Nox chamber (which is consistent with Andy Kubert's work in X-MEN 54 but still goes against Madureira's art in UNCANNY 334). Of course this is moot a page later as she arrives in Xavier's study in costume.<br /><br />And there's also a bit of timeline confusion. Early on, Jean says that her encounter with Onslaught in Salem Center was "yesterday," but later she refers to it as "earlier today." Still later, she says "hours ago," which could technically go either way. In any case, all events have consistently been presented as happening in the same day across X-MEN 53 - UNCANNY 334 - X-MEN 54, so I'm pretty sure the "yesterday" line was a mistake.<br /><br />(This is a long day for the X-Men, then! Counting X-MEN: ONSLAUGHT, that's four straight issues running across one day and night.)<br /><br />Also speaking of the timeline, I gather that the events of this issue are taking place overnight; like the X-Men went out looking for Juggernaut late at night, and the subsequent Onslaught reveal, him capturing the X-Men and playing cat-and-mouse with them, takes place throughout the night and into the wee hours of the morning.<br /><br />...So if that's the case, why are the Fantastic Four, including their young child, all hanging around the breakfast table? They're not in another time zone! I can buy the Avengers all being awake and in costume in the middle of the night when some random super-powered teenager shows up at their front door, but nothing out of the ordinary is happening with the FF, so why are they awake?<br /><br />(I guess maybe they just got back from a mission or something, and I don't necessarily need exposition to tell me that, but it just feels odd to see them this way in relation to what's going on with the X-Men.)Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-41374834669321113962021-03-02T23:28:31.491-06:002021-03-02T23:28:31.491-06:00Just re-read this for the first time in many years...Just re-read this for the first time in many years, and I was struck by how looong it was. I know it was double-sized; was it ad-free as well? I feel like Lobdell and Waid were treading water at a few points to pad the thing out to its allotted length.<br /><br />But besides that, I mostly like it. As has already been noted, “Onslaught” served as a bit of a deck-clearing exercise for the X-Men, resolving plots both old (the traitor) and new (Dark Beast impersonating Beast and, upcoming, Rogue’s leave of absence). I like it for that. Had it remained solely an X-Men event, it might be better remembered today. But they needed some means to transition into “Heroes Reborn”, and this was a good vehicle for that, I suppose.<br /><br />Interesting that Lobdell calls Onslaught a “Galactus-level threat” for the X-Men, which to me implies he intended the character might return every once in a while. But of course he was off the book a year later and that never happened. (Also, I would argue that the X-Men <b>had</b> a Galactus-level threat in Dark Phoenix, who Claremont and Byrne had also intended as an occasionally recurring foe until Jim Shooter put the kibosh on that plan.)<br /><br />I like this quote from Lobdell: “<b> Some guys work out every last detail up front, but I tend to unwind my ideas slowly and just follow a character or a storyline. I feel like I'm somebody who has a clothesline that's all knotted up and I follow the line until I get to the end. Hopefully, a story or a character will reveal itself by the time I get there. I don't have any problem finding a story instead of telling a story.</b>”<br /><br />I’m sure you, Austin, don’t. I know you’ve voiced your distaste for this writing “style” over the years. For me, it’s this weird romanticization of comic book writing. Doing it by the sear of hour pants, never knowing what’s going to happen next. I like to imagine that all my favorite runs were done this way, though I imagine many were not.<br /><br />(Though I did recently re-read John Romita’s introduction to an older SPIDER-MAN MASTERWORKS volume in which he said that he and Stan did it that way. For example, the introduced the stone tablet, which was a McGuffin for many months in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, with no idea of why it was importantor how its story would end.)<br /><br />Lastly, Bishop... Bishop was one of my favorite X-Men in the 90s. And today, he is still one of my favorite X-Men if we’re talking about the 90s. But I must sadly agree that nobody knew what do with him after his big moment here. Quite honestly, I think he should’ve died in this issue, giving his life to fulfill his destiny and prevent his future. It would’ve really sold Onslaught as a credible threat — the only problem is that if it’s Professor X killing him, then that kinda makes any eventual redemption a lot harder to pull off. Professor Xavier may be a jerk, but he’s no murderer.<br /><br />That’s about all I’ve got right now, but I bet I’ll think of more to say by tomorrow morning.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-11474494646946462622021-03-02T21:31:15.652-06:002021-03-02T21:31:15.652-06:00Cue the Marvel vs Capcom OST. Onslaught really beg...Cue the Marvel vs Capcom OST. Onslaught really begins here. <br /><br />I'm of two minds about this issue. On the one hand, this brings a lot X-Men plots to its breaking point. We know who the X-Traitor is, Dark Beast has his subterfuge resolved, Onslaught is established as a legitimate threat. <br /><br />On the other hand... <br /><br />"Age of Apocalypse" was a good story. In hindsight, "X-Men Alpha" is light years better than "Onslaught: X-Men". <br /><br />Bishop is now DONE as a character. There's a workable arc with Gambit, but that'll come later. <br /><br />Onslaught FELT like an event. It could've been. It SHOULD'VE been. Tying it into "Heroes Reborn" at the ignoring of their most famous characters (hey, writing Spider-Man or Wolverine? We got this event and Jim and Rob don't care) is just... kinda why the whole crossover is a mess. <br /><br />That'll all come later tho. This was a good issue and FELT so when it came out. <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06939026577728515478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-56807275540016946762021-03-02T11:03:28.141-06:002021-03-02T11:03:28.141-06:00I totally fell for it. I completely bought that Je...I totally fell for it. I completely bought that Jean's recorded message in Bishop's DoFPesque setting meant that the X-Men were genuinely legitimately dead (and that Bishop had to prevent that from ever happening). Didn't think it was yet another case of "I saw you die!" "No, we only <i>almost</i> died."<br /><br />I mean, goddamn, Jean! Didn't the Savage Land volcano incinent in the early #100's teach you <i>anything</i>!? First thing after something happens you're causing havoc and alarming everyone that <i>the X-Men are dead!</i><br /><br /><i>I tell y'all, this time I swear the f***ing X-Men are f***ing dead! D-E-D, dead! They're dead!</i>Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-15150679920983635642021-03-01T23:05:20.563-06:002021-03-01T23:05:20.563-06:00Did Lee and Portacio originally have a traitor in ...Did Lee and Portacio originally have a traitor in mind? I remember hearing years later that they'd planned to pick whomever had the least suspicion among the press/fans once they got around to resolving the storyline, but that sounds so lazy and short-sighted (and downright cynical in regards to the characters they'd been entrusted with.) Then again, we're talking about the same guys who got handed the keys to the biggest books/characters in comics, then ditched it all after less than a year when they had to start answering for more than 22 pages every month. So responsible, long-term thinking isn't exactly their forte. <br /><br />I was long gone from the X-books at this point, so I missed out on the excitement of discovering the traitor revelation. I can imagine the excitement, both collectively in the fan community and among individual readers as they reached that page. X-fans know the pain of long-gestating subplots that take forever to pay off (and far too many that never did; I sometimes wonder if Chris Claremont prepared me for some of David Chase's narrative habits on "The Sopranos,") so when an actual payoff arrives, it's like Christmas morning out of nowhere.Bobnoreply@blogger.com