tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post939986229560330925..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: Last Week in TV #17Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-69922779218881909612012-02-01T11:13:46.397-06:002012-02-01T11:13:46.397-06:00@Blam: I don't remember exactly what, but it w...@Blam: <i>I don't remember exactly what, but it was on the order of some random issue of DNAgents.</i><br /><br />I'm pretty sure I also saw some pretty old issues of <i>Dazzler</i> and <i>Ka-Zar</i>, of all things, on that rack. <br /><br /><i>I don't even remember if Regina knows who Emma really is, and thus that Henry is Snow White's grandson, versus some cosmic plan that unbeknownst to her found her adopting the one child from the outside world with connections to Fairy-Tale Land.</i><br /><br />As far as I can recall, it's the latter. Even if Regina-as-mayor remembers her life as Regina-as-Queen, whereas no one else does, I don't think she knows that Emma is Snow's daughter (which is why I wish Emma was a little more careful of telling people that, even if it is Snow...). <br /><br /><i>at the very least I'd like to get what would've helped so greatly with many points on Lost — some brief in-story lip service acknowledging such points and then waving them away as magic.</i><br /><br />I most definitely agree. While I think that <i>Lost</i> has soured me on ever getting into a TV show as much as I got into that one (fool me once...), and thus I'm ironically more likely to be forgiving of narrative dead ends/inconsistencies in other shows simply because I'm not as invested in them as I was <i>Lost</i>, I will always want serialized shows like this one to come as close to telling a cohesive narrative as possible. <br /><br />For what it's worth, I know from following Jane Espenson on Twitter that the <i>Once</i> writers have a big wall-length board in their office with all kinds of details about FTL, the progression of the overarching story and the show's mythology mapped out on it, so that gives me some confidence. <br /><br />Then again, the <i>Lost</i> writers had a board like that too, and it didn't stop them from leaving narrative threads unresolved... <br /><br />And, of course, all those thoughts apply to <i>Alcatraz</i> as well...Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-45258347801618358002012-01-30T19:37:48.798-06:002012-01-30T19:37:48.798-06:00Teebore: Maybe I'm just rationalizing to make ...<br>Teebore: <i>Maybe I'm just rationalizing to make myself feel better, but the impression I'm getting is that while all the inmates (and, seemingly, at least some of the staff) all disappeared at the same time, I don't think they all came back (in the present) at the same time.</i><br /><br />I'll happily go along with that, although if whatever agency (in the wider, more existential sense) brought them back is rationing them out, either intentionally or as some by-product of the mechanism of their return, it still seems rather convenient that they're spaced out the way they are unless, as you say, there's some master plan that keeps them in reserve as needed.<br /><br />Teebore: <i>At any rate, yes, if the show provides no in-show answer for the convenient-for-TV "convict-a-week" pacing, it'll be a great disappointment. From what I've seen so far, I *think* this show is smart enough to do it.</i><br /><br />Yeah, I agree. (So why am I typing all this?)<br /><br />VW: <i>ringunc</i> — Gollum's mother's or father's brother.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-49972488384618521192012-01-30T19:33:18.027-06:002012-01-30T19:33:18.027-06:00Teebore: Then, of course, there's also the qu...<br>Teebore: <i> Then, of course, there's also the questions of how the curse works, like keeping everyone in Storybrooke and strangers out. No one ever drives through? No one in town orders books from Amazon that have to be shipped to the town?</i><br /><br />Maybe they get drops from The Dharma Initiative. And that accounts for the random comic books. 8^) <i>Problem solved!</i><br /><br />Really, though, I do hope they've thought that through. The Mayor did really seem to think she was getting rid of Emma by having her take Hansel & Gretel to Boston, so perhaps she knows or at least suspects that since Emma can travel freely the plan would work — or she hoped that since they <i>can't</i> leave town some horrible accident would befall them. I'm not sure how we're supposed to read Emma's car accident the first time she tried to leave herself — an outright inability to leave again, or fate trying to keep her there, or just a coincidence that perpetuates the series.<br /><br />I don't even remember if Regina knows who Emma really is, and thus that Henry is Snow White's grandson, versus some cosmic plan that unbeknownst to her found her adopting the one child from the outside world with connections to Fairy-Tale Land. And that brings me back to the fact that, while time never really passed in Storybrooke until Emma got there, I've been under the assumption that she really is 30-ish and so FTL has only been Storybrooke for that long; this would change if somehow Emma hasn't aged normally in the outside world and nobody's ever noticed that and/or if she was in Storybrooke as a baby for some great length of time before leaving.<br /><br />I have to say that it feels like FTL was shunted over to the "real" world contemporarily, existing alongside it another dimension, but that wreaks all kinds of havoc on the fact that the legends from there have existed in the real world for so long. Of course you can rationalize it by saying that time passes so differently there that practically all we've seen of FTL has occurred contemporaneously with the last several hundred years of human existence, but then you throw a monkey wrench in the colloquial American English spoken by most of the folks in FTL — which itself is weird not only on its own merits but because we do get some characters with "accents" like Rumpelstiltskin and the Hunter.<br /><br />And you're absolutely right that the producers may feel that most of these questions are negligible, but I think that most of them rather fall under the heading of "internal consistency'; at the very least I'd like to get what would've helped so greatly with many points on <i>Lost</i> — some brief in-story lip service acknowledging such points and then waving them away as magic.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-21180019883191552352012-01-30T19:17:17.531-06:002012-01-30T19:17:17.531-06:00Teebore: I've been wondering about pretty much...<br>Teebore: <i>I've been wondering about pretty much all the question you posed as well</i><br /><br />Whew. 8^)<br /><br />Teebore: <i> recent "fairybacks" (to steal a term from Oliver Sava at the Onion AV Club) have started to show how the various characters and kingdoms fit together</i><br /><br />Nice coinage; I'll have to remember that. Yeah, I've noticed that the legends have intermixed, not only on the level of all the witches knowing one another — like the Queen visiting Maleficent, I think it was, and of course dealing with Rumpelstiltskin — but the Queen directly involving herself in Hansel & Gretel's story. That last one was particularly weird, since based on the father's comment about them not getting lost I'd thought that their encounter with the candy cottage had already happened, and when it turned out it hadn't, with the Queen the impetus, I was disconcerted by how far afield the affair strayed from the established version (No bread crumbs?!?). On the other hand, Rumpelstiltskin's backstory seemed to widen the scope a bit, and I didn't get a sense of how far back in Fairy-Tale Land time that had happened because it's all sort-of pseudo-medieval and of course he's probably immortal as long as he has his power. <br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-17666860458165499192012-01-30T19:08:41.281-06:002012-01-30T19:08:41.281-06:00Yeah. I actually complained about the same thing o...<br>Yeah. I actually complained about the same thing on <i>Alcatraz</i> in a comment at Nikki's right before my comment here, and then I realized that I was probably mixing up the shows. I'm pretty sure we've seen some anomalies in Doc Soto's shop, but the issues of Geoff Johns' <i>Justice Society of America</i> in "Kit Nelson" were clearly bagged-'n'-boarded back issues, whereas in "True North" on <i>Once</i> the sundries shop had a rack of, like, I don't remember exactly what, but it was on the order of some random issue of <i>DNAgents</i>. I grant that the display was still better than the old issues of <i>Action Comics</i> clipped to wires in <i>The Lost Boys</i>, but if that's your barometer of realism, feh.<br /><br />VW: <i>cromendi</i> — Healers amongst the early humans.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-12223483621767952682012-01-30T17:41:06.283-06:002012-01-30T17:41:06.283-06:00@Blam: In this case, I wondered if that issue was ...@Blam: <i>In this case, I wondered if that issue was showcased because it was written by Lindelof</i><br /><br />Which, of course, could only explain that one issue and not the rack full of comics from the 80s, which I just remembered were then in addition to the <i>Ultimate Hulk vs. Wolverine</i> issue Henry leafed through.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-65874596035312506862012-01-30T14:33:37.099-06:002012-01-30T14:33:37.099-06:00Yeah we just call it redemption island because, A)...Yeah we just call it redemption island because, A) Survivor came up with the idea first and B) the name Redemption Island is easier to rememberSarah Ahiershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02795455714801965956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-9444148856680443042012-01-30T11:00:36.722-06:002012-01-30T11:00:36.722-06:00@Blam: ...is that it looks like the 302 escapees a...@Blam: <i>...is that it looks like the 302 escapees are going to helpfully wait to return to their evil ways at the rate of roughly one per episode.</i><br /><br />Maybe I'm just rationalizing to make myself feel better, but the impression I'm getting is that while all the inmates (and, seemingly, at least some of the staff) all disappeared at the same time, I don't think they all came back (in the present) at the same time. <br /><br />In the pilot, it seemed like we were seeing the arrival of the first prisoner to return, and my take on it was that whatever it is that is behind the disappearance is sending them back one by one to do something, either because they have to or because it works better that way, and once that prisoner is "done" another pops up. <br /><br />But this episode kinda skunked that, since Kit Nelson didn't really do anything other than indulge his MO. <br /><br />At any rate, yes, if the show provides no in-show answer for the convenient-for-TV "convict-a-week" pacing, it'll be a great disappointment. From what I've seen so far, I *think* this show is smart enough to do it. <br /><br /><i>I want so badly for there to be an actual kitchen island called "redemption island" where you can only prepare food on that little counter space.</i><br /><br />While that would be awesome, she is, unfortunately, borrowing a phrase. <i>Top Chef</i> this season started a "Last Chance Kitchen" in which the contestant sent packing competes in a short online episode against the previous "Last Chance" winner. Whomever remains in the Last Chance kitchen whenever the show decides, will be reinserted to the competition and given another shot to win it all.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-84771929487057935722012-01-30T11:00:31.356-06:002012-01-30T11:00:31.356-06:00@Blam: I cannot for the life of me figure out how ...@Blam: <i>I cannot for the life of me figure out how a network TV series ... fails to get even ballpark contemporary issues for use as props or set decoration.</i><br /><br />Yeah, that always bugs me too. (<i>Big Bang Theory</i> is better about that, but they have their own issues with the comic shop as presented). In this case, I wondered if that issue was showcased because it was written by Lindelof, but while some of his <i>Lost</i> co-workers are involved in this show, he's not. Then again, maybe it's another of the show's <i>Lost</i> references, like some of the numbers and Emma drinking MacCutcheon (which most certainly would not have a screw cap, at least not as presented on <i>Lost</i>). <br /><br /><i>...which like this one I mostly enjoyed even if it was a bit predictable</i><br /><br />That pretty much describes most of the episodes, with the few unpredictabilities being some of the ways they tweak the fairy tales. <br /><br /><i>How many people were there in Fairy-Tale Land or whatever it's called? Did a lot die during the transformative spell and I forgot that plot point? Were the relatively "unimportant" ones not brought into the so-called real world?</i><br /><br />I wondered about this too, especially after the sheriff-election debate and a town hall meeting in last night's ep that had a ton of extras in attendance. I turned to Mrs. Teebore and said, "so, are all those people, like, the commoners of Fairy Tale Land that never became recognizable characters?"<br /><br /><i>The more I see of the flashbacks, though, including origin/prequel storylines for characters like Snow White and Rumpelstiltskin, the more "mythology" questions are raised for me that I'm not sure the show means to raise or cares to answer </i><br /><br />I've been wondering about pretty much all the question you posed as well, particularly the idea of whether Fairy Tale Land is set in a mythic past, with the characters shunted forward to modern day Storybrooke, or did they exist in an alternate dimension (with the fairly coming,slightly mangled, to their writers via dreams of that world, a la the old Earth-2 comics) and were shunted <i>over</i> to Storybrooke by the curse. <br /><br />On the one hand, some of our questions are probably, in the eyes of the writers, more pedantic than they have any interest in answering. On the other hand, recent "fairybacks" (to steal a term from Oliver Sava at the Onion AV Club) have started to show how the various characters and kingdoms fit together, so it's certainly possible we may get a more cohesive idea of the geographical and political lay of Fairy Tale land as time goes by, even if it comes about inadvertently. <br /><br />Then, of course, there's also the questions of how the curse works, like keeping everyone in Storybrooke and strangers out. No one ever drives through? No one in town orders books from Amazon that have to be shipped to the town? All of their necessities can be met within the town limits? Even stuff like gasoline? <br /><br />But, of course, all those kinds of questions can be chalked up to "magic". <br /><br />(At the very least, I have more confidence in this show to address some of its mythology questions than I do <i>Grimm</i>, which, as I catch up on it, has some glaring mythology questions of its own to answer, and has given me little indication it has any interest in/intention of doing). <br /><br /><i>So did anyone else think that Emma would know him when he first pulled up?</i><br /><br />Absolutely. I thought it would go down exactly as you did, with the pair feigning ignorance until Henry was gone.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-62230637508736588002012-01-30T10:59:46.042-06:002012-01-30T10:59:46.042-06:00@Anne: maybe it's a midwest thing- and that...@Anne: <i>maybe it's a midwest thing- and that's why we didn't think chicken salad was such an odd choice for a block party</i><br /><br />That could be. We do love our mayonnaise-based "salads" 'round here. <br /><br />@Mr. Shabadoo: <i>due in no small part to the attractiveness of the main protagonist. </i><br /><br />Indeed. Anne may not like her haircut, but I find her rather fetching. <br /><br /><i>Yet they are almost entirely reliant on the two people that literally stumbled into their operation to catch them? What sort of crap planning is that?</i><br /><br />Yeah, I've too wondered how much of that is part of the story, and how much is Pilot-logic we're supposed to overlook because all that really matters is getting the main characters in place. <br /><br />A lot of it, I suppose, will depend on how prepared Emerson was for the return of the convicts prior to their return (obviously, they knew it was coming, but did they know exactly when, or was their operation still in setup mode when the first one came back and Sarah and Doc got involved?) and how much he knows about what the convicts goal/mission in coming back is. <br /><br /><i>Also, I don't really understand why he dislikes Rebecca and Doc so much.</i><br /><br />Yeah, I'm sure we'll get an "Emerson-centric" episode at some point, and hopefully that will help explain his dislike of them. It seems like a character trait that has to get SOME explanation at some point. <br /><br /><i>If this becomes the Smallville kryptonite of this series, I will get annoyed. </i><br /><br />I hadn't thought of it in those terms, but you're absolutely right, and I totally agree. That probably also ties in with the larger story of what they're doing back here: the first two cons seemed like they were given a mission along with an opportunity to indulge their psychosis: so the first guy killed the warden, then that other dude, and the sniper killed a bunch of people, but also shot Emerson's assistant who turned out to be from the past. But this guy came back and just did his whackadoo thing, as far as we know.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-80911423216137380582012-01-29T20:12:13.856-06:002012-01-29T20:12:13.856-06:00Alcatraz: Kit Nelson
or "The 'Traz"...<br><b><i>Alcatraz</i>: Kit Nelson</b><br /><br /><i>or "The 'Traz" as my wife and I call it</i><br /><br />Ha! Now I want to see a stage-musical version called <i>All That 'Traz</i> — directed by Traz Palminteri.<br /><br />I'm glad you like this. Reactions in response to Nikki's first post on it were very mixed. I don't think that it's brilliant, exactly, but I don't need it to be. My big problem, apart from some of the convenient plotting common to procedurals — matters of geography; wild guesses that turn out to be right; clues or hypotheses that <i>aren't</i> arrived at early enough because the script says so, like Doc Soto not realizing that Kit Nelson wasn't doing what the abductees wanted to do but rather recreating what he or his brother used to do — is that it looks like the 302 escapees are going to helpfully wait to return to their evil ways at the rate of roughly one per episode.<br /><br />The big surprise for me was the apparent revelation that the convicts can die in the present day, although we may find out differently pending results of the autopsy.<br /><br />Sarah: <i>I'll be interested in seeing who wins redemption island</i><br /><br />Okay, I know that <i>Survivor</i> has a Redemption Island now, but I've never seen <i>Top Chef</i>. Does it have that same kind of gimmick, and if so is it actually called "redemption island" or are you just borrowing the phrase? I want so badly for there to be an actual kitchen island called "redemption island" where you can only prepare food on that little counter space.<br /><br />Mr. Shabadoo: <i>They clearly were prepared for these criminals to come back. Yet they are almost entirely reliant on the two people that literally stumbled into their operation to catch them? What sort of crap planning is that?</i><br /><br />I'd been bothered by that subconsciously too without quite having it come to the fore of my thoughts, so thanks for bringing it up — and, y'know, <i>thanks a lot</i> for bringing it up. 8^)<br /><br />Mr. Shabadoo: <i>Loved how dead wrong Emerson was when he 'threatened' Rebecca that if she left she'd never find out what happened to her grandpa.</i><br /><br />Same here. When she spun around in anger her reaction was so refreshingly genuine and common-sense it took me aback.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-77248658446378314302012-01-29T20:05:57.527-06:002012-01-29T20:05:57.527-06:00Once Upon a Time: 7:15 AM
I cannot for the life ...<br><b><i>Once Upon a Time</i>: 7:15 AM</b> <br /><br />I cannot for the life of me figure out how a network TV series — let alone one "from producers of <i>Lost</i>", a show that had more than one writer familiar with comic books — fails to get even ballpark contemporary issues for use as props or set decoration.<br /><br />That complaint was specific to the previous episode, which like this one I mostly enjoyed even if it was a bit predictable. A larger issue that I've thought about vaguely before but for some reason more pointedly these last couple of weeks (maybe due to, like you, catching up a batch recently) is that Storybrook is a relatively small town. How many people were there in Fairy-Tale Land or whatever it's called? Did a lot die during the transformative spell and I forgot that plot point? Were the relatively "unimportant" ones not brought into the so-called real world?<br /><br /><i>here, it's the flashbacks that are most compelling (dicey CG and anachronist dialogue aside)</i><br /><br />Agreed with all of this... The more I see of the flashbacks, though, including origin/prequel storylines for characters like Snow White and Rumpelstiltskin, the more "mythology" questions are raised for me that I'm not sure the show means to raise or cares to answer — like how big Fairy-Tale Land is in terms of geography as well as population, whether it takes place on a planet like Earth or a dimension where there's just land and sky, whether all the legends that we know took place there culminated (for lack of a better word) at roughly the same time, whether the Grimms and other authors channeled events from over there somehow or the stories on Earth came first and steered destiny in Fairy-Tale Land, and even whether the real world existed before the spell transplanted Fairy-Tale Land's people/characters into it.<br /><br /><i>The show occasionally reminds us that Mary Margaret is Emma's mother, but little has been made of the fact that David is Emma's father, something I don't think Emma knows/hasn't put together yet.</i><br /><br />Good point; I hadn't really thought of that, partly because, in an ouroboric way, since we haven't seen much made of that I've tended not to make the association of David being Emma's father even though I know that David is Charming and Mary Margaret is Snow White and Mary Maragret / Snow White is Emma's mother.<br /><br /><i>It was nice to see Red Riding Hood in fairy tale land, instead of just wiping tables in the modern world. In general, I've been enjoying the way the show interweaves different fairy tale characters in the flashbacks.</i><br /><br />Ditto. Although that brings me back to questions about the population, geography, and timeline of Fairy-Tale Land both internally and as it relates to Storybrooke / Earth at large.<br /><br /><i>The mysterious new stranger in town is a writer. I condone this show's portrayal of writers as mysteriously sexy</i><br /><br />Ha! Ditto there too. So did anyone else think that Emma would know him when he first pulled up? I felt like the episode was heading towards him being Henry's dad, just to complicate things, especially since we just had Emma giving Henry a, well, fairy tale about who his father was. Even when Emma and he failed to recognize one another I suspected that it was a put-on for Henry's sake.<br /><br />VW: <i>tormally</i> — In the usual course of severe physical and/or mental suffering.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-14454372289140050402012-01-29T16:15:27.011-06:002012-01-29T16:15:27.011-06:00Traz
I began watching this show based on the fact...<b>Traz</b><br /><br />I began watching this show based on the fact it was being covered here. So far I am a fan... due in no small part to the attractiveness of the main protagonist. Some thoughts so far:<br /><br />-They clearly were prepared for these criminals to come back. Yet they are almost entirely reliant on the two people that literally stumbled into their operation to catch them? What sort of crap planning is that? I really hope that part of the 'mystery' eventually reveals that these two were intended to be part of the operation all along and were only made to think that it was their own choice.<br /><br />-Loved how dead wrong Emerson was when he 'threatened' Rebecca that if she left she'd never find out what happened to her grandpa. He needs her more than she needs him. Also, I don't really understand why he dislikes Rebecca and Doc so much.<br /><br />-Episodes 2 & 3 based the inmates' motives on events that happened to them as children. If this becomes the Smallville kryptonite of this series, I will get annoyed.Mr.Shabadoonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-57799163584060369772012-01-29T07:48:13.796-06:002012-01-29T07:48:13.796-06:00maybe it's a midwest thing- and that's why...maybe it's a midwest thing- and that's why we didn't think chicken salad was such an odd choice for a block party (perhaps it's anathema all over the rest of the country).<br /><br />i love Jorge Garcia.<br />Also, i really don't like the haircut of the main chick in 'TrazAnne Ahiershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04695186823472404436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-33364265091764853442012-01-27T10:11:09.618-06:002012-01-27T10:11:09.618-06:00@Sarah: I'll be interested in seeing who wins ...@Sarah: <i>I'll be interested in seeing who wins redemption island, Bev or Chris, though i'm thinking Bev has a bit of an edge there</i><br /><br />Me too, though I've heard some rumblings that the Nysesha/Bev showdown was setup such that Bev had a HUGE advantage, like they wanted her to win. But I haven't bothered to read further on that.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-16982072309573710722012-01-27T10:08:34.482-06:002012-01-27T10:08:34.482-06:00Yeah i don't know why tom was giving her shit ...Yeah i don't know why tom was giving her shit about her dish. It's a block party, which was chicken salad such a bad choice?<br />Grayson cracks me up, and I was so glad when she smacked tom around a bit.<br />I'll be interested in seeing who wins redemption island, Bev or Chris, though i'm thinking Bev has a bit of an edge thereSarah Ahiershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02795455714801965956noreply@blogger.com