tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post8641127486144888824..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining Daredevil #269Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-87799098243896439922014-11-10T21:14:14.980-06:002014-11-10T21:14:14.980-06:00Teebore: I will say that while trading your (feder...Teebore: <i>I will say that while trading your (federal) authority for sexual favors that wouldn't otherwise be given may not technically be rape, it's close enough that I don't really care about the distinction.</i><br /><br />Putting it like that it's hard to argue against, even in the legal sense. I seem to have allowed myself to be temporarily waylaid by some Evil Mutant logic of fighting an unconstitutional mutant registration from inside with your own gain very much within the picture.<br /><br />Not much wiggle room from Nocenti's uncalled-for characterization then. Leaves me pretty suspicious of Pyro's romance novels. A Claremont character, and a pyrokinetic too, so it's probably something in line of <i>Fifty Shades of Grey: The Fire Incarnate</i> to begin with. Would like to argue there's not much markets for that kind of thing, but stupid reality comes into my way.<br /><br />Harsh irony really that the Brotherhood's scheme to assassin senator Kelly was in the end a massive motivator for the Mutant Registration Act, and here they are themselves the appointed enforcers of it. I wonder how they broke that news to Kelly, he has really been in for it lately.<br /><br /><i>Putting on my pedantic hat, some would argue that neither Pregnant Gwen nor "Deadly Genesis" were Silver Age retcons; rather Bronze Age ones, depending on where you want to draw the line of demarcation between the eras.</i><br /><br />I left that one in knowingly. Though, I am myself a proponent of the Silver Age dying with Gwen Stacy, at least in Spidey world, so there's that. And if Second Genesis should not be an unretconnable corner store piece at least as the premises goes and thus honorarily enjoying Silver Age protection, I don't know what is.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-17666575490788158292014-11-10T18:15:52.537-06:002014-11-10T18:15:52.537-06:00@Teemu: Thinking it over, there is a tiny chance t...@Teemu: <i>Thinking it over, there is a tiny chance they aren't at all rapey but rather just in habit of bartering with their female quarry to let them walk free against some sexual gratification. </i><br /><br />I really <i>really</i> don't want to start a discussion about what does or doesn't constitute rape, but I will say that while trading your (federal) authority for sexual favors that wouldn't otherwise be given may not technically be rape, it's close enough that I don't really care about the distinction. <br /><br /><i>The first rule of the Silver Age is, you don't retcon the Silver Age. You'll only end up with pregnant Gwen Stacy and 1st and a halfth Genesis.</i><br /><br />Putting on my pedantic hat, some would argue that neither Pregnant Gwen nor "Deadly Genesis" were Silver Age retcons; rather Bronze Age ones, depending on where you want to draw the line of demarcation between the eras. <br /><br />@Jason: <i>and I certainly didn't know that Nocenti actually was the *creator* of Spiral.</i><br /><br /> I didn't really think of it until just now, but aside from the obvious teleporation angle, I wonder if that's why Nocenti has Spiral be the one to tell the boys "don't screw up" and then admonish them for screwing up, rather than Mystique. You know, just to get some face time with one of her creations. <br /><br />@Mike: <i>Teebore, are you going to look at Incredible Hulk 369? It also features Freedom Force fighting a non-mutant opponent, and is tons of fun.</i><br /><br />I've got it on the list to check out. I'll have to see if I can find a spot for it, or if it's brief enough to get covered in a combo post or something. <br /><br />@Blam: <i>I thought Pyro was Australian.</i><br /><br />I believe he technically is Australian, though there's been some confusion about that in his earlier appearances (someone, maybe Blob, refers to him as a Limey a couple times. Which can easily be explained away as Blob being dumb/ignorant, but that might explain how Nocenti got confused/tripped up). <br /><br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-3777585657438227642014-11-08T04:11:52.913-06:002014-11-08T04:11:52.913-06:00Blam: or Val, who must be so proud
If controlling...Blam: <i>or Val, who must be so proud</i><br /><br />If controlling mutants is what you wanna do, controlling mutants is what you gonna do. She'll just have to occasionally stop to pinch her bridge of nose and remember this is pretty much what Mystique originally promised her. At least there's not all that administrative hassle there would be with the likes of Avengers.<br /><br />When Shadow King eventually sends her to shoot Mystique, part of her probably goes along happily.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-77602869170783329142014-11-07T13:59:54.535-06:002014-11-07T13:59:54.535-06:00Am I giving too much credit for Nocenti if I sugge...Am I giving too much credit for Nocenti if I suggest that Matt calling Pyro British is fully intentional "mistake" on his part, as he is playing the part of your ordinary American smalltowner. The whole thing could also serve as an in-joke over all the previous haziness over the matter, some possibly even on Nocenti's editorial watch. She does give him the correct accent, for given value of correct, right?<br /><br />The thing I like about Pyro is the minor touch that he can't create fire like, say, Johnny Storm even if he can control it. It may have been, possibly, only an excuse to give him a flamethrower originally, but it is carried on finely here.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-26420748124525556322014-11-07T06:39:45.748-06:002014-11-07T06:39:45.748-06:00I thought Pyro was Australian. You wouldn't fi...<br>I thought Pyro was Australian. You wouldn't figure that someone with Matt's hearing would mistake him for "an Englishman" as he says, so the error has to be Nocenti's.<br /><br />Ditto what Mike L. says about JRJr. & Williamson.<br /><br />"You <i>always</i> get the girls! This one's mine! You <i>promised!"</i> — Blob to Pyro when they pull out Amanda's photo, after Pyro's classy comment, "I'd like the luv to show me what her mutant <i>talent</i> is. 'Ey what? Hyuk yuk!" Later: "She was gonna be <i>mine!</i> Now <i>you</i> touched her! You <i>ruined</i> her!" Which I think makes pretty clear what, besides getting drunk and randomly terrorizing civilians, they consider perks of the job when unsupervised by Mystique or Spiral (or Val, who must be so proud).<br /><br />I liked this, reminding me that I really should read Nocenti's <i>Daredevil</i> run in full one day. The ending was kind-of abrupt, although I appreciate its tone. The start was kind-of abrupt too, in a different way: Kicking off with Freedom Force <i>in medias res</i> is fine, even in (maybe particularly in) a done-in-one story like this, but I was confused about whether Matt came through town by pure luck just as Blob and Pyro are looking for the girl or whether he's there to get to her first based on a tip. I can read it both ways, and my preference is the latter, but that would depend on it being set up the issue before.<br /><br /><i>// Clever power usage, or ridiculous? //</i><br /><br />Ridiculous. Also possibly not as ridiculous as Pyro's accent.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-79934361852758739862014-11-06T22:11:00.074-06:002014-11-06T22:11:00.074-06:00@Jason,
I remember that quote being in the Hulk i...@Jason,<br /><br />I remember that quote being in the Hulk issue. Speaking of the Blob, the way the Hulk fights him is fantastic.<br /><br />@Teemu,<br /><br />Maybe the X-Men aren't all they're supposed to be, but at least they don't lose as often as the Teen Titans.<br /><br />Anyway, Freedom Force shouldn't feel that bad. Ultron fought the Avengers but DD took him out with a stick.<br /><br />- Mike LoughlinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-22990108439315454292014-11-06T13:56:53.498-06:002014-11-06T13:56:53.498-06:00Blob via Jason: "Even Daredevil was able to t...Blob via Jason: <i>"Even Daredevil was able to take us recently!"</i><br /><br />Does anyone ever think we have perhaps chosen our favorite team poorly? Our Uncanny X-Men always get run for their money's worth from the Freedom Force, Marauders, etc. who then go get their asses handed for them by the likes of Power Pack, Daredevil etc.<br /><br />Crappy Claremont just can't come up with nice and easy ways for the heroes to beat the foes, causing everyone to angst insufferably.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-23400445528468960062014-11-06T12:46:06.046-06:002014-11-06T12:46:06.046-06:00Oh, that is a great done in one, and kind of a nic...Oh, that is a great done in one, and kind of a nice companion piece to this one. I believe PAD even has the Blob make a joke about the DD issue. ("Even Daredevil was able to take us recently!")Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-63863454110346803052014-11-06T10:46:24.357-06:002014-11-06T10:46:24.357-06:00Sorry, Hulk 369 features the grey Hulk vs. FF, not...Sorry, Hulk 369 features the grey Hulk vs. FF, not 269.<br /><br />- Mike LoughlinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-41215718899893681232014-11-06T10:45:06.090-06:002014-11-06T10:45:06.090-06:00This issue is one of my favorites of the Nocenti/ ...This issue is one of my favorites of the Nocenti/ JRJr./ Williamson run. It's nothing terribly consequential, but it makes a nice break between heavier stories. Also, DD vs. non-DD villains is usually cool.<br /><br />You know why these issues look so good> JR Jr. being inked by Al Williamson. That combo was weirdly perfect, and I've rarely liked JR Jr.'s work inked by others. I first saw Williamson's solo work on Empire Strikes Back adaptation, and loved how detailed it was. With JR Jr., he pulled way back and seemed to know exactly where to put thin lines vs. spot blacks. It's always great to see artists changing their styles to reflect the material and their collaborators.<br /><br />Teebore, are you going to look at Incredible Hulk 369? It also features Freedom Force fighting a non-mutant opponent, and is tons of fun.<br /><br />- Mike LoughlinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-38660792497023789542014-11-06T04:41:03.264-06:002014-11-06T04:41:03.264-06:00I remember buying this issue off the stands and li...I remember buying this issue off the stands and liking it a lot. I'm always a big fan of Nocenti.<br /><br />At the time, I didn't know all the creator connections -- that Nocenti was the editor and Romita Jr. the artist on the X-Men issues in which the Brotherhood first became Freedom Force ... and I certainly didn't know that Nocenti actually was the *creator* of Spiral.<br /><br />Pretty cool. I want to read this again some day.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-58662114673905559242014-11-05T22:44:49.448-06:002014-11-05T22:44:49.448-06:00On a general note, I have a problem in reading old...On a general note, I have a problem in reading older stories in light on 90's and later Hidden Years/Untold Stories written with modern day sensibilities and from where the comics media is nowadays. The first rule of the Silver Age is, you don't retcon the Silver Age. You'll only end up with pregnant Gwen Stacy and 1st and a halfth Genesis.<br /><br />Blob though is and has always been repugnant, barring the Spidey story where Unus dies, and they have had some murderous sensibilities still during their FF era, what with Avalanche going on about how easy it would be to kill Cyke and Wolvie in #199. The story just brings the rapey angle in so blatantly to my favorite bunch of villains that as an academic experiment I'd like to see if it could be in any way explained away (which is an evil and consequential thing too if done to Jean Grey).Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-19392218043983642982014-11-05T21:32:26.845-06:002014-11-05T21:32:26.845-06:00Yes. Not to paint myself an apologist or anything,...Yes. Not to paint myself an apologist or anything, but I have lots of love for Romita-drawn FF, so I have to point out Spiral's notion upon dropping them: "And boys -- try not to screw this one up." Like it was occasionally known to happen that the boys would return without apprehending their quarry, possibly explained by them in roundabout way later on by her "pulling some mutant tricks and getting off".<br /><br />As a code-of-conduct they may even let the gal decide which one which is why Blob won't get any and neither of them allows the hot Greek join them on the gig.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-6341176397675005582014-11-05T21:23:49.820-06:002014-11-05T21:23:49.820-06:00Blob was shown trying to rape Jean in the Hidden Y...Blob was shown trying to rape Jean in the Hidden Years.<br />As for Pyro, he might not have gotten rapey in the past but he had no qualms about kidnapping a dozen babies and keeping them from their mothers without the moms knowing what happened to them- I never understood the "Sure he'd leave the moms wondering what happened to their babies but he'd never rape women" argument.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-46565896687222999502014-11-05T19:17:19.823-06:002014-11-05T19:17:19.823-06:00Thinking it over, there is a tiny chance they aren...Thinking it over, there is a tiny chance they aren't at all rapey but rather just in habit of bartering with their female quarry to let them walk free against some sexual gratification. They are the FREEDOM Force right, and also neé Evil Mutants, what do they expect really, sending them to enforce mutant registration? Not rapists at all, just two very, very questionable Robin Hoods.<br /><br /><i>That's one of the things I ended up liking about this issue; it showed a side of the Act we don't always get when there's the regular plot and character mechanics of the X-characters to be dealt with.</i><br /><br />The thing that I hate about the Oz Men era and the alienation theme therewith is that the reader is unwillingly alienated from the surrounding world and society alongside, with the camera, so to say, following only the X-Men or immediate plot points. Up to #224 there was no problem whatsoever to start listening Val Cooper's little introduction of the Freedom Force where it happens and then transition to a bar to hear what the common man has to say about it.<br /><br />There was some "Ethnological frusque", which seems to be my capthta for the post.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-10941130915278786472014-11-05T16:52:25.501-06:002014-11-05T16:52:25.501-06:00@wwk5d: Mystique points out the missing members fr...@wwk5d: <i>Mystique points out the missing members from that issue are on another mission</i><br /><br />Do we ever see Spiral's last mission w/FF? I know she's noted as being absent in UXM #255, but between this issue and that one, her next appearance is in a MCP serial I haven't read. After that, she's done appearing w/Freedom Force. <br /><br /><i>Though I guess when she isn't around...</i><br /><br />That's how I took it. Without Mystique, they cut loose. Perhaps even a little looser than normal, in backlash to Mystique's reins. <br /><br /><i>Our good government officials seem especially rape-y here. I'll buy it with Blob, but it possibly clashes a bit with Pyro's other career as the writer for ladies' romance novels. </i><br /><br />Indeed. Good point about Pyro's novelist career, though Blob is definitely the more overtly rapey of the two. <br /><br /><i>Matt Murdock: "I watched in horror when the Mutant Registration Act was passed"<br /><br />1) *chuckle*</i><br /><br />Haha! I *completely* missed that.<br /><br /><i>You would think that if the Act is a blatant civil rights violation there would be a massive political and legal ado over the Act that surely should have been expected to sieve into the mutant books.</i><br /><br />I assume there was, at least off panel, since it's eventually repealed, at least by the time of "Civil War" and another registration act. That's one of the things I ended up liking about this issue; it showed a side of the Act we don't always get when there's the regular plot and character mechanics of the X-characters to be dealt with. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-3675860111855060552014-11-05T14:43:40.657-06:002014-11-05T14:43:40.657-06:00Our good government officials seem especially rape...Our good government officials seem especially rape-y here. I'll buy it with Blob, but it possibly clashes a bit with Pyro's other career as the writer for ladies' romance novels. And no, he's likely not on hiatus from it, because shortly on Muir Island he'll be bummed for not getting to see how his new book'll fare. On the other note, it's very Genosha-approvable magistratial conduct, now that we've entered the times of registering mutants in US too.<br /><br />I love how the former Evil Mutants always make a mess of things without Mystique and her tight leash. Them Claremont characters...<br /><br />Matt Murdock: "I watched in horror when the Mutant Registration Act was passed"<br /><br />1) *chuckle*<br /><br />2) You would think that if the Act is a blatant civil rights violation there would be a massive political and legal ado over the Act that surely should have been expected to sieve into the mutant books. Everyone's been busy though, so... <br /><br />2b) ... though, Solo Avengers #14 has a fun and a gorgeous She-Hulk story by Claremont & Davis, where Jennifer Walters is arguing against the Mutant Registration Act in a courtroom but is continuously pestered by Titania. Because angering a hulk is usually a great idea.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-91859991714174506722014-11-05T13:48:12.483-06:002014-11-05T13:48:12.483-06:00"Spiral also appears briefly at the beginning..."Spiral also appears briefly at the beginning and end of the issue to teleport them in and out, indicating she's still a member of the team at this time."<br /><br />She's still a member of the team when the Reavers assault Muir Island (Mystique points out the missing members from that issue are on another mission).<br /><br />"Arriving in town, Blob and Pyro waste no time flexing their authority."<br /><br />A bit over the top, though. I know they're villains, but Mystique usually kept a tight leash on her operatives. Though I guess when she isn't around...<br /><br />"Clever power usage, or ridiculous?"<br /><br />Ridonkulous!<br /><br />"And while Daredevil taking on the whole team might have seemed a bit much, Pyro and Blob alone make for decent adversaries, powerful enough to be a challenge but not so powerful that Daredevil can't eventually prevail against them."<br /><br />Hey, it's a LOT less ridiculous than just Cyclops and Marvel Girl trouncing the entire team...then again, if Jean can punch out a heavyweight like Spiral...<br /><br />wwk5dnoreply@blogger.com