tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post8226747574520440703..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining New Mutants #54Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-22421892444193008572023-06-20T01:19:55.802-05:002023-06-20T01:19:55.802-05:00That Mirage/Thunderbird flirtation had the same is...That Mirage/Thunderbird flirtation had the same issue that the Black Panther/Storm relationship did (I mean, this never comes up again, even when they are on the same team.)<br /><br />Also has there ever been an interview or anything where Claremont explains why he never returned to the books, if it was just supposed bro be for a brief interval?Jon Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11783906806644566810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-9895019741277261132022-05-05T14:15:57.460-05:002022-05-05T14:15:57.460-05:00Nice summation- the Hellions were truly underrated...Nice summation- the Hellions were truly underrated characters, and one of the worst parts of Simonson's run on the book is how she nearly completely disregards them and pushes her own original characters (not a single one of which has the remotest staying power). This spoils a ton of them, especially made notable since she's like "No, I'll redeem EMPATH!" arguably the most awful villain the book has. I also found the Tessa line extremely interesting, because the first damn thing Claremont did when he returned to the books with a wet fart in the late 1990s was to go "OH HO! TESSA is actually a wildly-important, amazing character!", like you said. <br />Jabronivillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07318218102203693195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-39291258819106767452014-01-15T23:20:50.998-06:002014-01-15T23:20:50.998-06:00Oblivious what the writers' actual plans for T...Oblivious what the writers' actual plans for Tessa was at that point, to me Tessa was always just too damn cool character to avoid ending up as the hero of the story at some point. Not unlike Fonzie.<br /><br />I mean, in all those minor cameos she popped up alongside Sebastian Shaw, like when Emma Frost fell in Mastermind-induced coma, she was the one having all the level-headed answers whereas Shaw with all his powers and wealth was completely clueless. Never the one to commit any atrocities by her hands. When Tessa went on to agree on the truce with Storm in the Central park when fighting Nimrod, that was a point of no return for her.<br /><br />I was going to mention that she's was always my fave alongside the Kingpin henchman the Answer, but I just realized they are essentially the same character and now I'm in shock.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-80936846361346433002014-01-13T09:28:21.599-06:002014-01-13T09:28:21.599-06:00@anonymous: And later on, Scott's son and Lor...@anonymous: <i> And later on, Scott's son and Lorna go missing. Illyana's scrying powers have to have some limits or else the Muties are idiots everytime they can't find someone or something. </i><br /><br />Well, in defense of those particular missing persons, neither Scott nor any of the other X-Men at the time of their disappearances is in a position to call on Illyana for help. X-Factor is sequestered in its own little corner by the time Scott realizes his son is alive and missing (as opposed to dead), and Lorna goes missing after "Inferno", when Illyana has lost her powers. <br /><br />All that said, yeah, there must be some limitation to it, or else the X-Men, in the immediate aftermath of the massacre, could have just had her scry up the location of the Marauders and taken the fight to them. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-67921777974514434372014-01-13T01:46:31.842-06:002014-01-13T01:46:31.842-06:00"Lord knows it's been ages since I read t..."Lord knows it's been ages since I read that Beast miniseries, but I'm pretty sure Shinobi Shaw was credited with their initial abduction, then passing them off to Spiral and Viper (though maybe that was established later, somewhere else?). Though I'm also pretty sure that Shinobi was never given much of a reason for kidnapping them in the first place."<br /><br />I had totally forgotten about Shinobi, actually. :) I"m fuzzy about non-Claremont X-continuity. I just looked online and they say Coy kidnapped the kids, then they somehow got passed to Shinobi, then to Viper/Spiral. I totally forgot about all that, I thought it was all just Viper and Spiral. <br /><br />My comment upon the irony of it all is now somewhat muted, I guess ... <br /><br /> Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-29405790045210369682014-01-12T19:48:37.356-06:002014-01-12T19:48:37.356-06:00@Fury of Firestorm- good point. The problem is tha...@Fury of Firestorm- good point. The problem is that Jean's sister, niece and nephew are also missing. Did nobody ask Illyana if she could use her scrying powers to find them? And later on, Scott's son and Lorna go missing. Illyana's scrying powers have to have some limits or else the Muties are idiots everytime they can't find someone or something.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-42583055594002721852014-01-12T15:01:26.213-06:002014-01-12T15:01:26.213-06:00@angmc43: I'm guessing that the main reason th...@angmc43: I'm guessing that the main reason that Shan didn't go to Illyana for help was because Karma is a devout Catholic, and was afraid to resort to Magik and her demonic powers for help.<br /><br />A lot of people tend to forget that lot of the NM members had very different, but very strong religious beliefs. Amara worshipped the Greek Pantheon, Dani believed in Native American spirits (and later, the Norse gods), Raine was also a devout Catholic, and Sam was raised as a Southern Baptist.<br /><br />It's ironic that even though i'm an atheist, some of my favorite comic characters are very religious, like Firebird from the Avengers and Nightcrawler (both Catholic), as well as Thing and Shadowcat (both Jewish). FuryOfFirestormhttp://furyoffirestorm.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-28865231997514407442014-01-11T14:28:11.942-06:002014-01-11T14:28:11.942-06:00@anonymous: They never did clearly explain who gra...@anonymous: <i>They never did clearly explain who grabbed the kids initially and why. </i><br /><br />Lord knows it's been ages since I read that Beast miniseries, but I'm pretty sure Shinobi Shaw was credited with their initial abduction, then passing them off to Spiral and Viper (though maybe that was established later, somewhere else?). Though I'm also pretty sure that Shinobi was never given much of a reason for kidnapping them in the first place. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-87718599719616408372014-01-11T14:25:16.778-06:002014-01-11T14:25:16.778-06:00"Also somewhat ironic that the New Mutants fe..."Also somewhat ironic that the New Mutants feel guilty for going on a hunt for Viper, instead of helping Shan find out who kidnapped the two kids ... when you consider who the kidnapper was eventually revealed to be ..."<br />Viper claimed that she DIDN'T kidnap the kids and only acquired them recently from the Hellfire Club. They never did clearly explain who grabbed the kids initially and why. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-4951086657834945622014-01-11T13:24:25.406-06:002014-01-11T13:24:25.406-06:00@Jason: I don't think there's any question...@Jason: <i>I don't think there's any question that at this point he had come up with the idea that Tessa's mind was like a computer's. ... That she's Xavier's spy inside the Hellfire Club, on the other hand ... I find it highly doubtful that Claremont had come up with that idea already. </i><br /><br />Good point (I'd forgotten about the bit in the <i>Classic X-Men</i> backup). I was certainly thinking in terms of Tessa being a living computer, rather than her being an Xavier insider. You're right that there's nothing here to suggest the later. <br /><br /><i><br />Also somewhat ironic that the New Mutants feel guilty for going on a hunt for Viper, instead of helping Shan find out who kidnapped the two kids ... when you consider who the kidnapper was eventually revealed to be ... </i><br /><br />Ha! Good point. For whatever reason, I also seem to remember Spiral's involvement in that story and completely forget Viper's (and Shinobi Shaw's). Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-13788201662784044122014-01-10T17:45:34.097-06:002014-01-10T17:45:34.097-06:00"Claremont will later reveal that Tessa's..."Claremont will later reveal that Tessa's power makes her mind like a living computer, and that she's been an agent of Xavier's inside the club this entire time ... Coming from any other writer, I'd chalk it up to lucky coincidence (which it still could be), but with Claremont, its entirely possible he had the idea of Sage in mind already at this time."<br /><br />I don't think there's any question that at this point he had come up with the idea that Tessa's mind was like a computer's. She's characterized the same way in Classic X-Men #7, which was published about five months before this issue. <br /><br />That she's Xavier's spy inside the Hellfire Club, on the other hand ... I find it highly doubtful that Claremont had come up with that idea already. Nothing here really suggests that. <br /><br />"And since Claremont barely (if at all) uses the Samurai after this point, that would do it."<br /><br />The next time is Wolverine #'s 2-3, which are pencilled by Buscema ... but not THAT Buscema. :)<br /><br />"The 1st time the NM fought Viper and SS, they lost Karma. The 2nd time, they lose her again. ... That's a great observation. I never made that connection before."<br /><br />Also somewhat ironic that the New Mutants feel guilty for going on a hunt for Viper, instead of helping Shan find out who kidnapped the two kids ... when you consider who the kidnapper was eventually revealed to be ... Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-71698158933721763672014-01-10T16:29:15.879-06:002014-01-10T16:29:15.879-06:00@FuryOfFirestorm: You should have kept that gradua...@FuryOfFirestorm: <i>You should have kept that graduation costume, Dougie!</i><br /><br />Ha! Though I think in this case, he was hit with an energy blast, as opposed to later, when he gets shot by an actual gun, firing bullets. Because in superhero comics, bullets are always way more deadly than any energy blast. <br /><br />Good point about Doug throwing himself in front of guns for his teammates too. I never really made that connection before, but it definitely seems like something of a trend around this time. <br /><br />@Matt: <i>I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that the award for "most stories, written by Chris Claremont and featuring Silver Samurai, illustrated by a single artist" goes to Sal Buscema</i><br /><br />I think you're probably right. <br /><br />@angmc43: <i>Tarot's cards probably had one that meant vouyerism. Thanks to a heads up by her chief, when Illyana did her scrying, Tarot's Vouyer card came up, she gave a discreet sign to Proudstar, and the Hellions did their play.</i><br /><br />That's a nice little but of No-Prizery, there. I like it. <br /><br /><i>Magneto comforting Shan. The last time we see NM Magneto being nice. </i><br /><br />I seem to recall psycho "lock 'em up in their rooms" Magneto to not show up until after Doug's death, and that he wasn't too far removed from Claremont's Magneto prior to that. But it's been awhile since I've read those issues, so I could be wrong. I was hoping we might have a few more issues of "decent Magneto" to go, but maybe not. <br /><br /><i>The 1st time the NM fought Viper and SS, they lost Karma. The 2nd time, they lose her again. </i><br /><br />That's a great observation. I never made that connection before.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-72660954974077240652014-01-10T15:06:22.549-06:002014-01-10T15:06:22.549-06:00In terms of Shan not asking for Illyana's help...In terms of Shan not asking for Illyana's help to find her siblings, I suppose either the NM accidentally ignored Shan's problems, or Shan was secretly afraid of Illyana's evil (The Special Edition and NM#51 both had her having a troubling experience with it), and didn't want her to use any magicks that might make that evil stronger.<br /><br />I don't think Proudstar knew about Illyana's scrying pool, but Emma probably informed him about her astral projection abilities (which she used to spy on her in NM#16). With this info, he knew Illyana might spy on them again (in terms of Astral and not Scrying). Tarot's cards probably had one that meant vouyerism. Thanks to a heads up by her chief, when Illyana did her scrying, Tarot's Vouyer card came up, she gave a discreet sign to Proudstar, and the Hellions did their play.<br /><br />I notice a trend of Doug trying to take a bullet for someone (54, 55, and 60). I suppose this incident proved to Doug that he can still be of use without Warlock.<br /><br />Magneto comforting Shan. The last time we see NM Magneto being nice. <br /><br />I wonder how the Hellions were able to beat Viper and the Silver Samurai? <br /><br />The 1st time the NM fought Viper and SS, they lost Karma. The 2nd time, they lose her again. angmc43@hotmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379700547226493861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-63674140509825878262014-01-10T14:48:39.599-06:002014-01-10T14:48:39.599-06:00I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that ...I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that the award for "most stories, written by Chris Claremont and featuring Silver Samurai, illustrated by a single artist" goes to Sal Buscema. He drew a few of Claremont's <i>Marvel Team-Up</i> issues with the guy, plus that early <i>New Mutants</i> arc, and now this issue. And since Claremont barely (if at all) uses the Samurai after this point, that would do it.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-30471932096711029352014-01-10T14:28:46.984-06:002014-01-10T14:28:46.984-06:00This issue: Doug takes a bullet for a team member ...This issue: Doug takes a bullet for a team member and lives.<br /><br />6 issues later: Doug takes a bullet for a team member and dies.<br /><br />You should have kept that graduation costume, Dougie!FuryOfFirestormhttp://furyoffirestorm.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-46785108655104778492014-01-10T09:31:49.645-06:002014-01-10T09:31:49.645-06:00@Anonymous: So what are the limits to Illyana'...@Anonymous: <i>So what are the limits to Illyana's scrying powers and how does Proudstar know what they are?</i><br /><br />Exactly. Even if *we* knew the limits (which we don't), how could Proudstar possibly know them? Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-42994545565802850142014-01-09T17:45:27.275-06:002014-01-09T17:45:27.275-06:00"Though Proudstar correctly assumed the New M..."Though Proudstar correctly assumed the New Mutants would use Illyana to spy on the Hellions, thus enabling him to plant false information, it's not entirely clear how he knew exactly when the New Mutants, watching from time-wonky Limbo, would stop and start listening in on the Hellions. Did they just repeat the dialogue the New Mutants overheard over and over again for a few hours, just to be safe? "<br />It gets even worse- it's a plot point that Illyana can't use her scrying powers to find Karma's siblings. So what are the limits to Illyana's scrying powers and how does Proudstar know what they are?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com