tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post7340747511300784466..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining X-Factor #23Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-75885589372575951992018-12-10T20:42:37.389-06:002018-12-10T20:42:37.389-06:00I loved cameron armor hodge which makes me think o...I loved cameron armor hodge which makes me think of armor in the film dune of 1984 not to mention the hodge robot that makes me think of the terminator when he is unmasked!Pat Otakuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770265027563686353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-37202313617905072382014-03-13T10:57:04.384-05:002014-03-13T10:57:04.384-05:00"Well, I'm pretty sure Mike Zeck was a co..."<b>Well, I'm pretty sure Mike Zeck was a co-designer on it ... in fact, I think his contribution was larger than Leonardi's ... but still, your point is taken. It isn't always clear-cut with these comix.</b>"<br /><br />Interesting. I've only ever seen the Leonardi design sketches, which are practically the finished product, but with a red spider instead of white. But perhaps those sketches were refined from something Zeck drew first.<br /><br />Incidentally, I looked through that Omnibus the other day and could not find any design sketches crediting the streamlined school uniforms to Jim Lee.<br /><br />I did, however, find something that blew my mind -- Lee's original concept sketch for the interlocking <i>X-Men</i> #1 covers shows Cyclops in his Cockrum/Byrne costume! Every other sketch and piece of artwork I've seen from that era has him in the full Lee outfit. I wonder if Lee was originally going to put him back in the classic look before a decision was made to "ninetiesfy" him?<br /><br />I have to say that while I'm fond of the Lee outfit, a return to my favorite costume for the character instead would have been much better.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-44267963512698950242014-03-13T00:50:55.678-05:002014-03-13T00:50:55.678-05:00" For example, Rick Leonardi designed Spider-..." For example, Rick Leonardi designed Spider-Man's black costume even though Ron Frenz drew it first in Amazing Spider-Man and Mike Zeck drew its debut in Secret Wars. Leonardi wasn't even a regular Spider-Man artist at the time!"<br /><br />Well, I'm pretty sure Mike Zeck was a co-designer on it ... in fact, I think his contribution was larger than Leonardi's ... but still, your point is taken. It isn't always clear-cut with these comix.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-75464614519650821922014-03-08T14:11:04.956-06:002014-03-08T14:11:04.956-06:00You know, guys, very soon we will meet Pretty Boy,...You know, guys, very soon we will meet Pretty Boy, the Reaver who "doesn't want a silly sword when he can charm ladies". And then Pierce sidehands his head off and gives him a full robotic body with a vent where his penis used to be. A vent! And he gets taunted a plenty by his friends for it and is mightily pissed about the whole thing.<br /><br />So it's completely reasonable that Apocalypse who wants to turn Warren into an evil henchman would go with a similar route. Warren already took lots of offense when they amputated the other things he felt made him special, namely his wings, so it's really already a tested motivator for Apocalypse to work with. Paint him partly pink, give him a mound just like Ken (of Barbie fame) has, release him on the world, profit.<br /><br />Which is ironic really because essentially Warren has his pair taken off him in the very same process his character gets given one.<br /><br />Though I think all this play on manly fear of castration as a plot device really is not for us amateurs to meddle on. Do we know anyone who is a self-proclaimed world's foremost expert on X-Men sexing, maybe has a chart where anyone's pi-pi has been in any given time, that sort of thing?Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-53903177970811349482014-03-08T12:32:44.281-06:002014-03-08T12:32:44.281-06:00@Blam: I was aware enough of this run to casually ...@Blam: <i>I was aware enough of this run to casually hate that when Archangel returned to X-Factor he kept the outfit he wore as a Horseman. When a team has matching costumes, an odd man out is just annoying.</i><br /><br />Yeah, that always bugged me too, especially after Portacio comes aboard and gives the entire team new, even-more-unified costumes. Plus, you've already got Beast (wearing naught but trunks) and Iceman (who's usually iced up) as visual odd-men-out, so by the time Archangel is flying around too, you're down to two team members in matching costumes, which is hardly a unified look. <br /><br /><i>Beast's new predicament eats into the duality that defines his character — inhuman size and strength with smarts and sophisticated speech — but I'm willing to see where it goes, since overall he's so much less interesting here than in his blue, furry Avengers (and X-Men reservist) incarnation.</i><br /><br />It reads very much like Simonson biding her time until she can reasonably turn him back to blue-n-furry and deciding to do SOMETHING different with the character in the meantime, instead of just having a watered down version of the "physically an animal, mentally a genius" character running around. <br /><br />It definitely breaks that dynamic, but as a relatively brief status quo change for the character, I've always kind of liked it. It only exists for about a year or so publication time, which, in the grand scheme of things, isn't *that* long, so I've always read it less as a genuine attempt to establish a new status quo and more as a transitional period. <br /><br />@Jason: <i>Did Lee design the sexy-fied Kirby suits? </i><br /><br />I've always heard/seen Lee credited as designing them, but again, that could just be rumor/supposition cemented into fact by getting repeated a lot. I've never actually seen anything definitive either way. <br /><br />@Matt: <i>Which of course brings up the question: if the "costume" is his skin, then where did his junk go??</i><br /><br />I'm not sure which artist first made it clear that Archangel's costume WAS a costume, and not his skin (Paul Smith, maybe, in the "Judgement War" arc?), but I wonder if whomever it was did so simply because they assumed it *had* to be a costume because, you know, no junk. :) Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-10323696955035398342014-03-07T22:23:10.938-06:002014-03-07T22:23:10.938-06:00@Matt: Which of course brings up the question: if ...@Matt: <i>Which of course brings up the question: if the "costume" is his skin, then where did his junk go??</i><br /><br />Apocalypse made him Death and deemed it needless for him to have any life-giving parts. As for the bodily wastes, they metabolize into poison and leave through his dart feathers.<br /><br />(I am a bit worried about me having come up with that explanation waaay too easily.)Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-47455214010299326572014-03-07T15:31:33.719-06:002014-03-07T15:31:33.719-06:00Teemu -- "Maybe he was like I were on impress...Teemu -- "<b>Maybe he was like I were on impression that the new looks was actually Angel's skin.</b>"<br /><br />Hmm, I forgot about that. For a while the purple parts of the mask seemed to pass right over his mouth, like a tattoo or something. Which of course brings up the question: if the "costume" is his skin, then where did his junk go??<br /><br />Jason -- "<b>Did Lee design the sexy-fied Kirby suits?</b>"<br /><br />I find myself wondering about this sort of thing more and more as I realize just how blurred certain lines were in the old days. For example, Rick Leonardi designed Spider-Man's black costume even though Ron Frenz drew it first in <i>Amazing Spider-Man</i> and Mike Zeck drew its debut in <i>Secret Wars</i>. Leonardi wasn't even a regular Spider-Man artist at the time!<br /><br />At any rate -- for some reason I thought Lee did the first appearance of the Muir Island school uniforms. I believe they debuted around the time he was tag-teaming with Silvestri, didn't they? Or was it earlier? I should look at my <i>X-Men by Chris Claremont Jim Lee, & Marc Silvestri Omnibus</i> when I have a moment later. It's filled with design sketches and such. I bet there's a clue in there.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-66698114722561337672014-03-07T09:12:39.997-06:002014-03-07T09:12:39.997-06:00"Forge and Banshee, as he was the one who des..."Forge and Banshee, as he was the one who designed all those outfits in the first place."<br /><br />Did Lee design the sexy-fied Kirby suits? <br /><br />I've always wondered about that. They first appear in issues drawn by Silvestri, but Lee seemed to really like 'em. (And I know I've read in interviews that Lee himself was a fan of the original "school uniform" era of X-Men.) Made me wonder if Lee was already assigned as Silvestri's replacement and designed those suits before he became the series' regular artist.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-51912784327466938112014-03-07T04:10:33.306-06:002014-03-07T04:10:33.306-06:00@ Matt: Also, I find it interesting that Simonson&...@ Matt: <i>Also, I find it interesting that Simonson's Archangel costume is one of the few that Jim Lee didn't redesign circa X-Men 1 - 3. He must've been a fan.</i><br /><br />Lee's generation of artist would soon enough enter into a feud with Marvel over the cuts that should be coming to their way from the merchs sales as the visual designers of the characters' looks. The cynical part in me is yelling loudly that Lee's costume overhaul was not made solely out of visual considerations.<br /><br />Maybe he was like I were on impression that the new looks was actually Angel's skin. It took some time to him show his yellow hair again and I have vague remembrance that he was referred as baldy somewhere around the Inferno era.<br /><br />@ Blam: <i>I wonder if he bothered to warn them that his robot duplicate was going to blow up the entire building after said non-defeat.</i><br /><br />I'm sure he didn't. Officially because he didn't want them act in suspicious ways like something was going to blow soon, but unofficially because he's just that kind of asshole.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-59782180243174311692014-03-06T20:21:01.871-06:002014-03-06T20:21:01.871-06:00I was aware enough of this run to casually hate th...<br>I was aware enough of this run to casually hate that when Archangel returned to X-Factor he kept the outfit he wore as a Horseman. When a team has matching costumes, an odd man out is just annoying. The fact that it's predominantly blue like Cyclops' and Beast's uniforms just makes it worse, too, as does the pink when the others' costumes are bold primary and secondary colors.<br /><br />Beast's new predicament eats into the duality that defines his character — inhuman size and strength with smarts and sophisticated speech — but I'm willing to see where it goes, since overall he's so much less interesting here than in his blue, furry Avengers (and X-Men reservist) incarnation.<br /><br />Nobody getting hit by the automatic Rictor was firing, even via ricochet, was a little suspect, as was the fact that the Smiley-Face Armor guys just kind-of stopped fighting and watched after subduing the kids while Cyclops broke open the Hodge robot's armor. I wonder if they were under orders from Hodge to stand down in that eventuality so that X-Factor could hear Hodge gloat about not really having been defeated; also, I wonder if he bothered to warn them that his robot duplicate was going to blow up the entire building after said non-defeat.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-19235370067198732042014-03-06T14:24:34.460-06:002014-03-06T14:24:34.460-06:00Teebore -- "I suppose he technically leaves G...Teebore -- "<b>I suppose he technically leaves Gambit's and Psylocke's alone too, but I think he designed those in the first place so they don't really count.</b>"<br /><br />Yeah, I meant of the ones he didn't have a hand in initially. He leaves Gambit and Psylocke alone, as well as Jubilee, Forge and Banshee, as he was the one who designed all those outfits in the first place. He also keeps Beast in the classic blue trunks look. But really, how are you going to redesign Beast? Turn him into a cat or something? That's absurd!<br /><br />I suppose he really didn't redesign Wolverine either, since he just restored him to his original yellow costume. And Storm's outfit was basically exactly the same as her Silvestri costume, but with the big lightning bolt swapped for twin "X's" instead. Though he added "X's" to every single costume, even the ones he himself had previously designed not to include them.<br /><br />Anyway. Archangel seems to be the only character who he did not either restore to a Silver/Bronze Age look or redesign from stratch, for whatever reason.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-85105560204560398582014-03-06T13:57:02.101-06:002014-03-06T13:57:02.101-06:00@wwk5d: In a Claremont story, maybe, but this is L...@wwk5d: <i>In a Claremont story, maybe, but this is Louise "Subtly? What's that?" Simonson...</i><br /><br />Yeah, no, I don't really think she's being that subtle. <br /><br />The Beast line is great though. <br /><br /><i>While I like the Horsemen as characters...they do seem to get their asses kicked quite a bit, don't they? You have to wonder why Apocalypse keeps them beyond FOTM...</i><br /><br />He doesn't really keep them around after FotM, though. Sure, he keeps returning to the concept, with new Horsemen (including Caliban), but we never see him use this particular group after "FotM", who next show up in "X-Cutioners Song", thinking they're doing the bidding of Apocalypse but actually working for a disguised Sinister (which at least suggests Apocalypse kept them around, even if we didn't see him deploy them). <br /><br />And, as Teemu said, Apocalypse will transition to the Riders of the Storm/Dark Riders as his go-to lackeys before too long. <br /><br />@Matt: <i>Also, I find it interesting that Simonson's Archangel costume is one of the few that Jim Lee didn't redesign circa X-Men 1 - 3. He must've been a fan.</i><br /><br />Good point. I suppose he technically leaves Gambit's and Psylocke's alone too, but I think he designed those in the first place so they don't really count. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-10641460848455464872014-03-05T12:39:13.798-06:002014-03-05T12:39:13.798-06:00Y'know, ruby quartz armor is kind of a cool id...Y'know, ruby quartz armor is kind of a cool idea -- but really only if you're fighting Cyclops solo. When his teammates are around as well, it seems kind of silly.<br /><br />Also, I find it interesting that Simonson's Archangel costume is one of the few that Jim Lee didn't redesign circa <i>X-Men</i> 1 - 3. He must've been a fan.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-43242669152465065722014-03-01T15:14:24.356-06:002014-03-01T15:14:24.356-06:00@wwk5d: While I like the Horsemen as characters......@wwk5d: <i>While I like the Horsemen as characters...they do seem to get their asses kicked quite a bit, don't they? You have to wonder why Apocalypse keeps them beyond FOTM...</i><br /><br />You can't legally disband a team in Marvel Universe before you have had Wolverine in the roster. Lots of the heavy lifting will soon enough to be transferred to the Riders of the Storm though.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-59361668421067500202014-03-01T13:40:04.057-06:002014-03-01T13:40:04.057-06:00"Look on the bright side: now she's got t..."Look on the bright side: now she's got the dumbest character saying it, which has to be some commentary on it, right?"<br /><br />In a Claremont story, maybe, but this is Louise "Subtly? What's that?" Simonson...<br /><br />But it worth it to see Beast call the Right Evil suckers...<br /><br />While I like the Horsemen as characters...they do seem to get their asses kicked quite a bit, don't they? You have to wonder why Apocalypse keeps them beyond FOTM...<br /><br />wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-54392998098309591352014-03-01T11:29:20.886-06:002014-03-01T11:29:20.886-06:00@Jeff: That outfit is totally blue and pink, and y...@Jeff: <i>That outfit is totally blue and pink, and you know it!!</i><br /><br />Heh. I've gotta give Warren a little dignity where I can.<br /><br />@Jason: <i>Why, Weezie, WHY?!??</i><br /><br />It had been a few issues; she was probably worried we'd forgotten. <br /><br />Look on the bright side: now she's got the dumbest character saying it, which has to be some commentary on it, right? :)Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-31391814917473698042014-02-28T23:16:53.490-06:002014-02-28T23:16:53.490-06:00"Infiltrating the Right's complex, Beast ..."Infiltrating the Right's complex, Beast echoes Iceman's phrase ..."<br /><br />Why, Weezie, WHY?!??<br />Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-72431560856064464322014-02-28T17:32:39.337-06:002014-02-28T17:32:39.337-06:00wearing the blue-and-red costume that will remain ...<i> wearing the blue-and-red costume that will remain with the character well into the 90s. </i><br /><br />That outfit is totally blue and pink, and you know it!!<br /><br />Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14447265712189987074noreply@blogger.com