tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post7104539988510397053..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining Uncanny X-Men #206Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-42492645236426074922023-08-23T13:20:56.628-05:002023-08-23T13:20:56.628-05:00"Rogue notes that she came to terms with havi...<i>"Rogue notes that she came to terms with having Carol Danvers' memories and personalities in her head in issue #203."</i><br /><br />LIAR! (lol!)<br /><br /><i>"Kitty and David are going to a Lila Cheney concert when Freedom Force attacks."</i><br /><br />"Oh don't mind me. Just going on dates with much older men as I'm wont to do, apparently."<br /><br />Also I suspect the sole reason that Julia Carpenter joined Freedom Force is so Claremont can indulge himself with a cheeky confrontation involving the original Spider-Woman. That's it. (and then future writers were "stuck" with her until they figured out a way to extract her from a team she was clearly, <i>clearly</i>, ill-suited for.)<br />Jon Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11783906806644566810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-17815789392304356732013-11-08T05:12:18.952-06:002013-11-08T05:12:18.952-06:00It would have bugged me more had this been the X-m...It would have bugged me more had this been the X-men's first issue in SF. As it is, it doesn't really seem like he was setting up a shift in status quo. Just a random idea that was brought up and then gets sh*t upon because they're mutant outlaws who just can't catch a break. <br /><br />On the other hand, tt could also be that Claremont had his original Mutant Massacre plot derailed, toyed with moving them to SF, the scuttled that idea as he decided to move ahead with the MM plot anyway. Isn't Maddie showing up at the hospital the first post #200 sub-plot we see regarding the MM?wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-70096770003178501092013-09-30T16:50:58.238-05:002013-09-30T16:50:58.238-05:00@Blam: And like I said we do know that real-world ...@Blam: <i>And like I said we do know that real-world behind-the-scenes machinations could affect the content of an issue literally in the course of its production, not that I recall ever hearing about a prolonged move to SF planned then shot down at this time either.</i><br /><br />I do wonder if something was going on behind the scenes - you get a sense, in hindsight, that Claremont was going to setup a permanent move to SF, even if he ultimately didn't even get as far as a feint, with the declaration in #203 of how San Fransisco seems more welcoming to the X-Men, and how much the X-Men are liking San Fran. <br /><br />That makes it seem like maybe he was setting up the move, but then got reminded that he couldn't have the X-Men actually be in San Fransisco that long, so even before he set it up he had to dash the idea in this issue. <br /><br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-57905315640249687882013-09-16T13:05:42.290-05:002013-09-16T13:05:42.290-05:00@Teebore: // It's similar, as you suggested, t...<br>@Teebore: <i>// It's similar, as you suggested, to what was ultimately the Bermuda Triangle Base Feint //</i><br /><br />My point, though, is that it's not even a feint. We don't get significant drama out of the potential move and then dashed hopes; the idea that X-Men or mutants in general just can't catch a break isn't really played up. There is zero narrative arc to the change in locale within the space of this one story. It's just something that doesn't pan out, which unlike Atlantis/Lovecraft Isle wasn't even toyed with and then nixed over the course of a few issues. <br /><br />I'm not exactly dragging Claremont over the coals here, mind you. For some reason this just struck me as notably strange. And like I said we do know that real-world behind-the-scenes machinations could affect the content of an issue literally in the course of its production, not that I recall ever hearing about a prolonged move to SF planned then shot down at this time either.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-32984589791218955102013-09-16T10:22:57.326-05:002013-09-16T10:22:57.326-05:00@Blam: So many series have plot threads, even majo...@Blam: <i>So many series have plot threads, even major changes to their entire premise, set in motion by one writer only to be altered by a turnover in creative team (or editorial overseer) either intentionally or simply because the new boss didn't know where the old boss was going. Claremont does this to </i>himself.<br /><br />You know, I've never really thought of it that way (probably because this brief San Fransiscan sojourn has always been a thing that just was, for me), but it definitely does seem like something where Claremont was trying to setup a new status quo then was forced to quickly reassess due to editorial mandate. <br /><br />But, as far as I know, that wasn't the case. It's similar, as you suggested, to what was ultimately the Bermuda Triangle Base Feint, though in that case, theoretically, the creation of <i>New Mutants</i> is what led Claremont to scuttle his plans. <br /><br />I suppose a case could be made that Claremont was intentionally setting San Fransisco up as a safe haven for the X-Men, especially in light of what was coming in "Mutant Massacre" (he does return the X-Men to the city after they've effectively abandoned the mansion for being unsafe), even while he was unable/unwilling to relocate them permanently, but even I have think that's a bit of a stretch. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-47740692965612032852013-09-15T22:28:59.909-05:002013-09-15T22:28:59.909-05:00The 'Frisco thing is completely weird.
At th...<br>The 'Frisco thing is completely weird. <br /><br />At the start of the issue, when Storm talks to Lt. Morrell, it sounds like we're having a potential new <i>status quo</i> teed up, but the rug's pulled out from the whole deal at the end when Morrell says, basically, "You remember how I said we were happy to have you? If you want to do everyone a real favor, leave."<br /><br />Not that this isn't quintessentially and bizarrely Claremont. So many series have plot threads, even major changes to their entire premise, set in motion by one writer only to be altered by a turnover in creative team (or editorial overseer) either intentionally or simply because the new boss didn't know where the old boss was going. Claremont does this <i>to himself</i>. We also get adjustments (to put it kindly) dictated from above, true, and Claremont was no stranger to that, yet he's the poster child for introducing elements, including new headquarters (well hello there Bermuda Triangle), that one expects to have short-term and/or long-term payoffs but end up either not pursued down the road or abandoned nearly as suddenly as they're introduced. Teasing San Francisco as a potential fresh start / home base for the X-Men in the opening pages only to nix the idea before the letters page rolls around is totally confounding, at least as presented, because there isn't even any real narrative rug knitted to be pulled out from under the reader in a clever way. <br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-57494409811532179862013-09-13T14:36:41.805-05:002013-09-13T14:36:41.805-05:00@Jonathan: Rachel was such a "Scrappy" w...@Jonathan: <i>Rachel was such a "Scrappy" wasn't she?</i><br /><br />Ha! Well said. I never thought of it in those terms before, but yeah, she really was. <br /><br /><i>y the way, you forgot to put Kitty's "hip" date outfit in the "I love the 80's" column!</i><br /><br />Good catch! That definitely belongs there. Good catch on the fishnets too; Kitty almost looks like a proto-Typhoid Mary in that getup. <br /><br />@Dan: <i>Do you own copies of all the issues you've covered? If not, are you pulling scans from certain trades or reprints? Digital?</i><br /><br />I own physical hard copies of pretty much every issue I've covered, barring some of the original 60s issues and a few of the limited series (I don't think I have every issue of Iceman's limited series). <br /><br />I own a complete run of <i>Uncanny</i> from issue #97 to present, along with a scattered assortment of probably half of the issues from #1-96 (the oldest issue I own is #12, and I'm actively trying to fill in that run), and I have complete runs of pretty much all the various spinoffs up to about the mid-2000s (for example, I have all of the first volume of Wolverine's solo series and very little of the subsequent volumes). <br /><br />A lot of the more recent spinoff series I have in trades, or I just read via my Marvel Unlimited subscription (which, for anyone who has any kind of tablet or likes to read comics on their computer, I highly recommend), having (slowly) started to kick the feeling of needing to own all the issues of every series. <br /><br />As for the images in the posts, all the ones in the main <i>X-Men</i> post come from the DVD-ROM Marvel released a few years back containing every issue of the main series up to that point (it was part of a series of DVDs Marvel released around that time featuring scans of complete runs of many of their classic series), the acquisition of which is what inspired me to start this project.<br /><br />The images in the <i>New Mutants</i>, <i>X-Factor</i>, etc. posts come mainly from...other sources, though some are scans of my own. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-62531813952038704242013-09-13T00:29:49.413-05:002013-09-13T00:29:49.413-05:00Completely off topic here Teebore, but curious...
...Completely off topic here Teebore, but curious...<br /><br />Do you own copies of all the issues you've covered? If not, are you pulling scans from certain trades or reprints? Digital? Always wondered where it all comes from. Don't be pressured to reveal your secrets, though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-76047070371394108292013-09-12T22:47:14.731-05:002013-09-12T22:47:14.731-05:00First of all, god damn, Rachel was such a "Sc...First of all, god damn, Rachel was such a "Scrappy" wasn't she? I'll delve into this further around issue 209 and 210, but it seems like even her teammates are tired of her.<br /><br />About Madelyne and the postcard: as much as I agree with Claremont's general assessment of Scott's/X-Factor's/editorials treatment of Maddie, I have to call BS on the "happy couple" image. Besides the fact that Claremont himself have the couple departing this series while having a big argument, Scott marrying a woman who looks just like his ex-girlfriend is going to end up more <i>"Rebecca"</i> than romantic.<br /><br />By the way, you forgot to put Kitty's "hip" date outfit in the "I love the 80's" column! (Boy JRJR must really love him some torn fishnets, such he ends up giving Typhoid Mary the same look.)Jon Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11783906806644566810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-88455771565142997452013-09-12T10:36:12.557-05:002013-09-12T10:36:12.557-05:00@angmc43: I thought it a cool scene where Jessica ...@angmc43: <i>I thought it a cool scene where Jessica gets PO'd about a new Spider-Woman.</i><br /><br />I liked that too. I probably should have pointed it out. <br /><br /><i>I think the problem is not so much Rachel meeting her father again, but finally revealing the truth.</i><br /><br />Ultimately, yeah, the issue ends with Rachel deciding to tell her father the truth (even though she actually won't for awhile yet), but before that, she specifically says she's not ready to meet her father yet, even though she already has on multiple occasions. <br /><br /><i>As for the postcard, I think the New Mutants knew where the X-Men were staying in San Francisco. The letter arrived at the school, and Karma- as secretary- sent it to San Fran.</i><br /><br />I'm not exactly sure how the timing of this issue fits with the timing of the "New Mutants as Hellions" story, but I like this explanation nonetheless, largely because it does something with the idea that Karma was supposed to be the school's secretary. Your No-Prize is in the mail. ;) <br /><br /><i>If I recall, the Thanksgiving issue of POWER PACK that time had Logan and Kitty commenting about the Summers separation, which contradicts this issue's idea that they were in the dark.</i><br /><br />I think I have to give the edge to this issue - not only because it was written by Claremont, but given how separate the X-Men are meant to be from X-Factor at this time (and for awhile), it makes more sense that they wouldn't know than they would (unless Maddy called them, which doesn't seem to be the case given later stories, and would further stretch the creditability of the X-Men not checking out X-Factor sooner). <br /><br />@Chris: <i>Presumably, the earlier sequence with the postcard would have made it obvious, but that orange haired woman didn't look like Maddy to me.</i><br /><br />Yeah, I think the postcard was meant to put Maddy into the readers' minds, but I never got that was Maddy until future stories got into the whole "shot and left for dead by the Marauders" thing, which retroactively made it more clear that its Maddy in this issue. <br /><br />Again, like with Maddy's first appearance, it's an example of the limitation of comic art in depicting non-costumed characters in a way that suggests their identity. <br /><br />@Mela: <i>I never read this issue, but reading this makes the whole "X-Men move to the welcoming city of San Francisco" turn a few years back make more sense.</i><br /><br />Yeah, one of the neat things about that story was how it was built on the precedent set by this one. The X-Men'll even go back to San Fran between this story and that one, briefly using Alcatraz as a base of operations for a few issues prior to "Fall of the Mutants". <br /><br />@Jeremy: <i>For the first time in a few months, it feels good to have a classic X-Men vs group of bad guys, and all just a warm-up to the great Hellfire Club/Nimrod story coming up.</i><br /><br />Definitely. I've always really enjoyed Claremont's X-Men/Freedom Force/Brotherhood fights, and this one plus the upcoming Nimrod/Hellfire Club fight is just a great bit of classic superhero comics before everything gets shaken up. <br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-6656829603336461292013-09-12T08:18:25.827-05:002013-09-12T08:18:25.827-05:00It was this issue I noticed just how often the X-M...It was this issue I noticed just how often the X-Men fought Mystique's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Claremont seems to either have them or the Juggernaut on hand when he needs to fulfill his genre superhero requirements. Luckily, he's gotten rather good at still making them creative(love the Storm fake-out and the Spiral/Rogue business), and Romita/Green are still as talented as ever at depicting it. For the first time in a few months, it feels good to have a classic X-Men vs group of bad guys, and all just a warm-up to the great Hellfire Club/Nimrod story coming up.<br /><br />Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12219137212221355997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-884305432898380772013-09-12T06:45:41.562-05:002013-09-12T06:45:41.562-05:00Huh. I never read this issue, but reading this mak...Huh. I never read this issue, but reading this makes the whole "X-Men move to the welcoming city of San Francisco" turn a few years back make more sense. I'm surprised that no one has run with SF just being a mutant-happy city, since you could argue this issue sets a precedent for it.Melahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05539894845356203447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-68977496249139126102013-09-12T05:01:35.327-05:002013-09-12T05:01:35.327-05:00I thought it a cool scene where Jessica gets PO...I thought it a cool scene where Jessica gets PO'd about a new Spider-Woman.<br /><br />I think the problem is not so much Rachel meeting her father again, but finally revealing the truth. Earlier stories do have her feeling that Scott knows, but she probably also thinks it's just wishful thinking to avoid the issue.<br /><br />As for the postcard, I think the New Mutants knew where the X-Men were staying in San Francisco. The letter arrived at the school, and Karma- as secretary- sent it to San Fran.<br /><br />If I recall, the Thanksgiving issue of POWER PACK that time had Logan and Kitty commenting about the Summers separation, which contradicts this issue's idea that they were in the dark.<br /><br />The end of the issue implies the X-Men will be visiting Anchorage. I did write a fanfic about it, saying the X-Men went there and confronted the same problems Scott will have in upcoming X-F issues, but more stressing problems forced the team to return to New York, with Rachel staying behind to find out the truth (and then I incorporated UXM ANNUAL 10 into the story). Rachel returns to get help in the search, and then the whole 207-209 story happens.angmc43@hotmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379700547226493861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-14033829306482663032013-09-11T21:10:48.348-05:002013-09-11T21:10:48.348-05:00At the time, I never realized the person admitted ...At the time, I never realized the person admitted into the hospital was Madeline. Presumably, the earlier sequence with the postcard would have made it obvious, but that orange haired woman didn't look like Maddy to me.<br /><br />ChrisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-8748574055137206972013-09-11T16:51:26.249-05:002013-09-11T16:51:26.249-05:00@Matt: the Spider-Man graphic novel Layton left X-...@Matt: <i>the Spider-Man graphic novel Layton left X-Factor to write was never published</i><br /><br />I'd wondered about that, as I couldn't recall a Layton-penned Spidey GN (then again, my Spider-Man knowledge is less-than encyclopedic, so I wasn't sure). Somehow I missed that Legends Revealed post - I'll have to check it out. To bad the book never was published: Smith and Windsor Smith on Spider-Man would have been something to see!Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-24354574266886877432013-09-11T15:49:56.171-05:002013-09-11T15:49:56.171-05:00Nothing really to say about this issue, except tha...Nothing really to say about this issue, except that the Spider-Man graphic novel Layton left <i>X-Factor</i> to write was never published, apparently due to the fact that it involved Spidey having an affair with the wife of a mobster. Comic Book Legends Revealed recently ran an article covering it. Paul Smith was going to draw it! And Barry Windsor Smith was going to ink it!!Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.com