tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post6878327614223684157..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining Avengers #263 & Fantastic Four #286Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-14444620695651612412017-04-26T09:25:22.806-05:002017-04-26T09:25:22.806-05:00I've only read "Dark Phoenix" with t...I've only read "Dark Phoenix" with the knowledge that the central character IS Jean Grey. I just ignore the ret-con.Mike-ELhttp://www.comicbooksyndicate.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-88442661747841821202014-01-06T18:11:20.257-06:002014-01-06T18:11:20.257-06:00Comment from Harry Sewalski:Due to the initial inv...<b>Comment from Harry Sewalski</b>:<i>Due to the initial involvement of the Enclave in the crash at the airport, the Avengers spend most of Avengers #263 believing the cocoon to contain their old ally Adam Warlock, who was first created by the Enclave an emerged from a cocoon similar in appearance to the one containing Jean.</i><br /><br />I always liked that bit - it feels logical for the Avengers to think so, and it also surprises the reader. I like that Roger Stern is one of those writers who can think outside the box as it were, and use elements from the wider Marvel Universe in his stories.<br /><br /><i>When Jean emerges from the cocoon, she is wearing the same tattered black dress she wore in X-Men #100, and believes herself to still be fighting Stephen Lang (she assumes the gathered Avengers and Fantastic Four to be Sentinels, in the vein of the X-Sentinels Lang pitted agains the X-Men in that issue).</i><br /><br />Another small thing, but I like it. Nowadays, if we had a flashback to one year ago the artist would just draw the characters wearing whatever the hell he wanted (assuming they're in civvies, although I wouldn't be surprised if an artist got costumes wrong too).<br /><br />@angmc43@hotmail.com :<i>John Byrne thought the Baxter Building's canonical height made it too small compared to other skyscrapers, so he decided to get rid of it and put up a new taller building.</i><br /><br />That reminds me of a blog I was reading about John Byrne's run on Namor the Sub-Mariner during the 90's. Someone commented on Byrne's removing of Namor's ankle-wings, and another person pointed out how silly they were to allow him to fly. The original commenter countered that as silly as they are, even sillier is the idea of Byrne seeing a story element he doesn't like, rolling up his sleeves and saying "Well, guess I'd better fix that, since no one else will!" That comment stuck with me, and when you think about it Byrne really has made a lot of unnecessary changes.<br /><br /><i>AVENGERS features the death of Melter by the assassin Scourge, who made appearances in many Marvel stories killing off seemingly lame supervillains (with his motto "Justice is Served!"). Pity, I liked Melter.</i><br /><br />I too liked Melter - a logical foe for Iron Man to fight. I did like the way the Scourge story originally ended, and I further liked Mark Gruenwald's retconning the idea into being thanks to the Golden Age Angel. Man, Gruenwald was awesome.<br /><br />@Dobson:<i>I'd also like to make a cheap plug for my blog for fans of this blog: http://thepouchfiles.blogspot.com/</i><br /><br />Every time I see a comment like this, I start internally debating whether or not I should start up a comics reviewing blog...<br /><br />@Teebore:<i>There's an X-Men podcast I listen to, and every time they talk about whatever the upcoming X-Men event is, one of the co-hosts swears this is the event that'll bring Jean back. He's done it - and been wrong - so often now that it's become a running joke on the show.</i><br /><br />There's a comic book site I used to visit (which I still do, although with much less frequency), and for the past few years, whenever the next Marvel event would be announced (AvX, Age of Ultron, Infinity), there'd always be at least one or two people commenting saying, "AT THE END OF THIS THEY'RE GOING TO DO A NEW-52 STYLE REBOOT SERIOUSLY I'M TELLING YOU GUYS!"<br /><br />Oh, and for the record, Teebore, I'll pretty much be sticking to reading and commenting on X-Factor reviews from here, since I read the first Essential volume a few years back. Gotta avoid those 30+ year old spoilers! ;) Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-78956650506673220442013-11-24T18:48:09.296-06:002013-11-24T18:48:09.296-06:00Bucky, on the other hand, should've remained a...<i> Bucky, on the other hand, should've remained absolutely 100% dead duh dead dead dead no matter how good the stories are.</i><br /><br />Over at the Distinguished Competition, i feel exactly the same way about Jason Todd.lost_limeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15957208004796864039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-49137616312851211412013-08-27T10:55:07.948-05:002013-08-27T10:55:07.948-05:00I love that Cap refers to Jean as "Miss Grey&...<br>I love that Cap refers to Jean as "Miss Grey".<br /><br /><i>// Either way, Byrne had his name removed from the credits of the issue as a result. //</i> <br /><br />This was almost certainly not the first and it was definitely not the last time such a thing would happen — Alan Smithee in comics form — but what I don't get is why, regardless of whether Byrne's name was removed, Claremont and Guice weren't credited in print for the pages they obviously did.<br /><br /><i>// Captain America doesn't learn about until he watches a report filed by Beast //</i> <br /><br />Way to keep up with <i>battles involving alien entities on Earth's moon detailed in your computer system by a fellow Avenger,</i> everybody! <br /><br /><i>// yet no one apparently offered to give Jean a change of clothes //</i> <br /><br />"I'm sure Reed can whip you up something, dear, if we can't raid Jan's closets. Maybe a little unstable-molecules number. Can't you, Reed? ... Reed? <i>Eyes up here,</i> Reed."<br />"Sorry. I was, er, still marveling at how well that bio-radiant stimulation worked."<br />"I'll bet."<br /><br /><i>// also doing its best to not invalidate the ending of "The Dark Phoenix Saga" by making it clear that it was still Jean, in a way, who made the heroic sacrifice //</i> <br /><br />So recently in looking up some thing or another and falling down the ol' hyperlink rabbit hole, I stumbled upon reference to the fact that one of the new <i>Classic X-Men</i> sequences retconned the retcon by stating that, more than just metaphorically or metaphysically, there really was some if not a lot of Jean in the entity that/who rose from Jamaica Bay and that we really can talk about Phoenix as Jean Grey herself. I'm not sure how much if any of the essence of that Phoenix made its way <i>back</i> into the original Jean in her cocoon — let alone how, period, that might work — but if it did that sure would explain some of the stuff that I've heard has happened to Jean since I last read the titles with any frequency. Not to mention that it would reconcile the fact that (as we've discussed here before) Rachel's mom has apparently never <i>not</i> been said to have been her timeline's Jean Grey <i>and</i> Phoenix, although it doesn't stop me from wanting to have seen a post-<i>X-Factor</i> scene in which Rachel freaks out that the mother she thought was Jean Grey was really some cosmic energy force and that the real version, her mom's genetic blueprint, might have lain in suspended animation at the bottom of Jamaica Bay for decades while the world blew itself up around her. <br /><br /><i>// That of course begs the question of whether or not Jean should have been brought back, and objectively, the answer is no. //</i> <br /><br />I tend to agree. Even though I'm probably more against the idea in spirit than you are, having lived at least for a little while with Jean Grey as a character early in my <i>X-Men</i> reading and bought #137 off the spinner rack, I also agree that her revival was probably done the best way it could have been if it was going to be done at all — notwithstanding how bad <i>X-Factor</i> was at the start and how the whole thing trashed Scott Summers' character. Bucky, on the other hand, should've remained absolutely 100% dead duh dead dead dead no matter how good the stories are.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-44077941678318347702013-08-12T15:44:35.612-05:002013-08-12T15:44:35.612-05:00@Reese: I think that the Phoenix coming back to li...@Reese: <i>I think that the Phoenix coming back to life..as the PHOENIX (& not Jean Grey) makes sense. Jean Grey should have stayed dead.</i><br /><br />That's a good way of putting it. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-72339644903476572032013-08-12T13:15:11.225-05:002013-08-12T13:15:11.225-05:00@Dan: I think the events of UXM #281-282 were ofte...@Dan: <i>I think the events of UXM #281-282 were often counted as one of Jean's "deaths", although that story has probably been more or less forgotten by now.</i><br /><br />I wonder about that too, but if people are counting it as a death, that's awfully convenient to their argument, as comic characters seemingly dying in the course of a story only to turn up alive and well by the end is a staple of the genre. <br /><br />I mean, Colossus died at the end of issue #155 but was said to be alive in issue #156 and back on his feet in #157, all in the course of the same story - does that count as a Colossus death? I really don't think so, any more than I count Jean's "death" at the end of issue #281 that's resolved by the end of the story. <br /><br /><i>Even Jean's last words to Scott before dying, something akin to "Live, Scott... all I ever do is die on you..." don't make a whole lot of sense in universe when you think about it.</i><br /><br />True. Jean (not Phoenix) had never technically died on Scott at that point. He believed her to have died at one point, but that's not the same as her actually dying on him all the time. <br /><br /><i>As in Silver Age Jean recently coming to the present day (along with the rest of the team) and what not? I think it's absurd, but technically, Jean Grey is alive. </i><br /><br />I'm aware of it, but haven't actually read any of those issues yet (I'm years behind in terms of current stuff). I've actually heard good things about that series (at least in terms of the central idea being pulled off far better than you'd expect) and while yes, technically, that means there's a Jean Grey hanging out with the X-Men again, I don't really count that as her being "back" anymore than I would if there was a <i>Hidden Years</i>-esque series featuring the character being published. <br /><br /><i>Also, I think Unus the Untouchable might actually have come back to life more times than Jean if I'm not mistaken. That's hilarious. </i><br /><br />I think you may be right, and that is indeed hilarious. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-38853604255939645362013-08-10T08:15:27.151-05:002013-08-10T08:15:27.151-05:00I think that the Phoenix coming back to life..as t...I think that the Phoenix coming back to life..as the <b>PHOENIX</b> (& not Jean Grey) makes sense. Jean Grey should have stayed dead.<br /><br />Profit driven retcons from Jim Shooter...'nuff said.Reesenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-71852517717475166892013-08-07T01:44:24.445-05:002013-08-07T01:44:24.445-05:00Also, I think Unus the Untouchable might actually ...Also, I think Unus the Untouchable might actually have come back to life more times than Jean if I'm not mistaken. That's hilarious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-67619270663480848252013-08-07T01:41:46.813-05:002013-08-07T01:41:46.813-05:00@Teebore
True. The other thing that bugs me about ...<b>@Teebore<br />True. The other thing that bugs me about that line is that it reminds me of how Jean Grey is more or less the poster child for death and resurrection in comics, a shorthand used amongst comic fans for the seemingly endless and often meaningless cycle of death and rebirth in superhero comics, despite the fact that she's only died twice and thus far returned once, which puts on even footing with, what, at least dozens of other characters, if not more? </b><br /><br />I agree completely, although I think the events of UXM #281-282 were often counted as one of Jean's "deaths", although that story has probably been more or less forgotten by now.<br /><br />Even Jean's last words to Scott before dying, something akin to "Live, Scott... all I ever do is die on you..." don't make a whole lot of sense in universe when you think about it.<br /><br />Are you up on what's happening in recent X-Men events? As in Silver Age Jean recently coming to the present day (along with the rest of the team) and what not? I think it's absurd, but technically, Jean Grey is alive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-58449396111735272812013-08-05T17:00:55.928-05:002013-08-05T17:00:55.928-05:00@Abigail: Unless they slipped it in randomly in on...@Abigail: <i>Unless they slipped it in randomly in one of the 3rd tier books.</i><br /><br />I would LOVE that. No hype, no event, just "well, here's Jean. She's back". It'd be great. <br /><br />@Jeff: <i>The same goes for Morrison's X-Men run, where they revealed that "Magneto" was just a mutant who thought he was Magneto (which is way lamer).</i><br /><br />I really didn't like what Morrison did with Magneto (at least after the Xorn reveal, which was pretty great), so I tend to prefer the retcon, even though it's beyond ridiculous, stupid and convoluted. <br /><br /><i>Much better than restoring the destroyed planet or something.</i><br /><br />Definitely. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-43344332545343697832013-08-03T09:59:01.548-05:002013-08-03T09:59:01.548-05:00I have to agree with everyone that it makes perfec...I have to agree with everyone that it makes perfect sense for a character name Phoenix to return from the dead. I've got no problems with that.<br /><br />I think it does lessen the original story to make Jean a copy though. What's funny is whenever I read the Dark Phoenix Saga, it's still always Jean the whole time to me. I generally just don't think about the retcon. The same goes for Morrison's X-Men run, where they revealed that "Magneto" was just a mutant who thought he was Magneto (which is way lamer). When I'm reading it, it' still the real Magneto. I think they were in a tough spot with Shooter's absolution remit though and did pretty well with what they could. Much better than restoring the destroyed planet or something.<br /><br />Those Byrne quotes are something else. I'd like to see him interviewed by Modern Frank Miller. Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14447265712189987074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-60921447289334370582013-08-02T17:15:44.450-05:002013-08-02T17:15:44.450-05:00Re: Jean resurrection, I watched the AvX panel at ...Re: Jean resurrection, I watched the AvX panel at Kapow last year and it was fricking <i>hilarious</i> when someone asked the inevitable Jean Grey resurrection question.<br /><br />With everyone anticipating it all the time it seems to be a running joke at Marvel. I just can't see how they could do it. Unless they slipped it in randomly in one of the 3rd tier books. In fact, have I read <i>X-Men</i> vol 4 this week? Maybe it happened there!<br /><br />Oh dear, I'm having story ideas again. Must stop that.Abigail Bradyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13778135648601234140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-85537836862422093792013-08-02T14:25:11.419-05:002013-08-02T14:25:11.419-05:00At the time these issues came out I was pretty exc...At the time these issues came out I was pretty excited and intrigued, as mentioned before, Jean/Phoenix was regularly invoked in the years since she died. She became a martyr really for the X-Men's success, and an albatross in terms of storytelling. I didn't have a problem with the constant referrals since I became a regular reader with #137, I only got a living Jean for one issue. Of course when I realized the Jean in that issue (#137) wasn't the real Jean I felt a bit cheated. Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13066873171972229134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-56925162856741751522013-08-02T13:25:08.370-05:002013-08-02T13:25:08.370-05:00@Dobson: The fact is most people wouldn't have...@Dobson: <i>The fact is most people wouldn't have even heard of the Phoenix.</i><br /><br />True. The other thing that bugs me about that line is that it reminds me of how Jean Grey is more or less the poster child for death and resurrection in comics, a shorthand used amongst comic fans for the seemingly endless and often meaningless cycle of death and rebirth in superhero comics, despite the fact that she's only died twice and thus far returned once, which puts on even footing with, what, at least dozens of other characters, if not more? <br /><br />Superman, Batman, Captain America, Cyclops, Colossus, Psylocke have all returned from the dead as often as she has, yet Jean Grey is constantly the punchline. <br /><br /><i>Also, not surprisingly, the Byrne quotes are insufferable.</i><br /><br />Right? It's not that I even disagree with all of what he's saying, he just says it all in such a way that I'm like "get over yourself", even if I agree with the his sentiment. <br /><br /><i>I'd also like to make a cheap plug for my blog for fans of this blog: http://thepouchfiles.blogspot.com/</i><br /><br />Hey hey! Glad to see you launched it. I'll head over soon to check it out, and give you a more prominent shoutout sometime in the near future. <br /><br />@Mela: <i>Stories & elements like that made this acceptable and much more affecting than the resurrections that followed</i><br /><br />Definitely. Regardless of how one may feel about the outcome, you can tell a lot of thought and care went into making this the best possible retcon, something that can't be said of a lot of later deaths and resurrections. <br /><br />@Michael: <i>I started writing a rant about this before realizing that I don't have time to do that right now, so I'll need to return later to finish that</i><br /><br />I'm looking forward to that :) <br /><br /><i> I have a background in journalism and am available to edit your stuff for spelling / grammar before posting if you'd like the help. </i><br /><br />I might take you up on that (then again, my pride may not allow me to - got to use that English degree for something!). I was particularly rushed with this post, as I didn't get as much time with it as I had originally planned, knowing full well it was going to be enormous and significant, so I wasn't able to read through it as often as I'd have liked (which has been the case for more posts than I'd like lately). <br /><br />Even with the upcoming third weekly review, I'm starting to get ahead of things again, so hopefully it'll get better. <br /><br />@Ian: <i>I would've loved to have seen some Madelyne/Jean connections around this time, though.</i><br /><br />Ditto. "Inferno" will eventually retcon in some connections to the characters, but it would have been nice to see some of that around this time. Frankly, those horrid early issues of <i>X-Factor</i> could have been a lot better (without taking away from what Layton wanted to do) if it had actually <i>used</i> Maddy in the book, instead of ignoring her so strongly.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-19855716283100131332013-08-02T13:25:04.535-05:002013-08-02T13:25:04.535-05:00@Abigail: But with Phoenix, death and resurrection...@Abigail: <i>But with Phoenix, death and resurrection is part of the point of the character.</i><br /><br />That is a good point - though not what they had in mind in creating the character, Claremont and Cockrum kind of unintentionally opened the door for constant deaths/resurrections by choosing that name. <br /><br /><i>In some ways it baffles me that they've left her dead for as long as they have - longer than she was "dead" the first time - although like Claremont during the 1980s they certainly enjoy teasing the return.</i><br /><br />Me too - I'm continually flabbergasted every time I'm reminded of the fact that she's been dead the second time longer than the first, especially since A. I laughed it off at the time, saying she'd be back in six months like every other character that dies these days and B. Marvel swept so much else from Morrison's run under the rug so quickly after he left. <br /><br />There's an X-Men podcast I listen to, and every time they talk about whatever the upcoming X-Men event is, one of the co-hosts <i>swears</i> this is the event that'll bring Jean back. He's done it - and been wrong - so often now that it's become a running joke on the show. <br /><br />@angmc43: <i>John Byrne thought the Baxter Building's canonical height made it too small compared to other skyscrapers, so he decided to get rid of it and put up a new taller building.</i><br /><br />I say this with the utmost respect, but that sounds <i>exactly</i> like a reason John Byrne would have for blowing up the Baxter Building. :) <br /><br />I knew he did that during his run, but didn't know why. <br /><br /><i>Realizing that getting her powers meant a loss of innocence, but not getting the point until this 'rape' experience, Sue renamed herself the Invisible Woman.</i><br /><br />Huh. I knew about the whole Malice arc, and the change from "Invisible Girl" to Invisible Woman" (which was long overdue), but I never knew the latter was a result of the former. One of these days I should really read all of Byrne's FF run, and not just the bits and pieces I have so far. <br /><br /><i>AVENGERS features the death of Melter by the assassin Scourge</i><br /><br />Melter was probably one of the more high profile guys killed by Scourge, wasn't he? Most of them were pretty C-list or less, but at least Melter was on a Masters of Evil and fought the various Avengers pretty regularly back in the day. <br /><br /><i>which artistic vision of Jean's space descent do you prefer? This story's Jean dying of old-movie disease (where you still look beautiful as you expire) or John Bolton's Jean the Cryptkeeper?</i><br /><br />Hmm...probably this one, just for the novelty of "old-movie disease", but there's no denying the Bolton one is incredibly well drawn. <br /><br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-75649456025812813882013-08-02T11:50:20.635-05:002013-08-02T11:50:20.635-05:00Abigail echoes my sentiments exactly - Phoenixes a...Abigail echoes my sentiments exactly - Phoenixes are all about rebirth. Also, having discovered the X-Men in 1992 I only viewed Jean's death as just a small bump in her overall life narrative. I understand that her death was supposed to be permanent (Which made issues #137 and #175 so powerful) and I do wonder how the books would have been handled had she stayed dead all this time <br /><br />Amazingly, Jean died again in 2004 and is still dead today, which is surprising in this age of shocking deaths with resurrections less than a year later.<br /><br />I would've loved to have seen some Madelyne/Jean connections around this time, though. It's been hinted that Maddy is basically Jean 2.0, but it seems like a waste of the character and these plot points to just have Jean come back, leaving Maddy to be a background character without powers until she....Gasp...Is revealed to be a clone from Mr. Sinister! What if Maddy comes in contact with the crystal in Jean's parents' house and suddenly Jean's memories and powers flood back into her? It would've been a simpler and more straightforward plot point.<br /><br />But in the end the original 5 X-Men were reunited and one of my favorite comics of the 80's was created.Ian Millerhttp://universex259.deviantart.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-55119999616054192842013-08-02T11:36:34.704-05:002013-08-02T11:36:34.704-05:00I started writing a rant about this before realizi...I started writing a rant about this before realizing that I don't have time to do that right now, so I'll need to return later to finish that. In the meantime...<br /><br />@Teebore: Not to nitpick, but I've noticed an uptick in small typos recently -- like writing "an" instead of "and" in the sentence about Adam Warlock. I can't really blame you considering the increased output, which is about to increase again with the introduction of X-Factor. I have a background in journalism and am available to edit your stuff for spelling / grammar before posting if you'd like the help.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665503542091489778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-84933574180364910182013-08-02T06:11:52.291-05:002013-08-02T06:11:52.291-05:00I always liked the Classic X-Men story that explai...I always liked the Classic X-Men story that explained how once the Phoenix took on Jean's human form/brain, it was instantly struck with a weird sentimentality & that's why she was saved. It's in line with DeFalco's quote about the human spirit infecting something that wasn't & elevating them, really. Stories & elements like that made this acceptable and much more affecting than the resurrections that followed (even if it did nerf #137's impact a bit). It all holds up... until X-Factor #1. Teebore, you have my sympathies.<br /><br /><i>Also, not surprisingly, the Byrne quotes are insufferable.</i><br /><br />Oh, yes, totally agree. Can we get a Kickstarter or Indieagogo fund going called "Tell John Byrne to Stop Talking"? His big mouth can ruin his best work sometimes, I swear.Melahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05539894845356203447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-50810339946726146612013-08-01T19:40:23.926-05:002013-08-01T19:40:23.926-05:00I think I'd be perfectly content if Jean had s...I think I'd be perfectly content if Jean had stayed dead, but she didn't, and these books are both really good, so it's hard to get too steamed about it. I love the Warlock fake-out, I love seeing Byrne draw Jean Grey again. Good comics can get away with a lot.<br /><br />I also miss the days when a group like the X-Men was not well known by a team like the Avengers. It's part of what made Nick Spencer's issues of "Secret Avengers" so infuriating [Black Widow argues with a TMZ style journalist over publishing super hero deaths, with the sleazy journalist pointing out sarcastically how often Jean Grey has died]. The fact is most people wouldn't have even heard of the Phoenix.<br /><br />Also, not surprisingly, the Byrne quotes are insufferable. <br /><br />I'd also like to make a cheap plug for my blog for fans of this blog: http://thepouchfiles.blogspot.com/<br />I think you'll agree it's more exciting than a weekend with Batman!Dobsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08884152078310514684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-69974727386215296902013-08-01T16:50:17.240-05:002013-08-01T16:50:17.240-05:00Several FF points:
John Byrne thought the Baxter ...Several FF points:<br /><br />John Byrne thought the Baxter Building's canonical height made it too small compared to other skyscrapers, so he decided to get rid of it and put up a new taller building.<br />Here is the plot:<br />Kristoff, a child Doom adopted as his ward, was brainwashed by Doombots into believing himself to be Doom. However, the memory-washing stopped at the events of FF#6, when Doom and the Sub-Mariner sent the Baxter Building into space, an action reversed when Namor, double-crossed by Doom, defeated the Doctor and returned the building to Earth. Kristoff-Doom decided to repeat this act and actually succeeded in blowing up the Baxter Building in space, believing this time no chance of error. Unfortunately, Kristoff-Doom was not yet brainwashed with the knowledge of Invisible Girl later developing her shield powers, so he couldn't know Sue was able to use this power to save the team from the explosion. A combination of teamwork got the FF back to Earth where they defeated Kristoff-Doom.<br /><br />Right after, Sue was attacked by the Psycho-Man. His emotion-twisting powers transformed Sue's love for Reed into hate, transforming her into the black-leather Malice. After she practically OWNED her FF members, Reed was able to undo the brainwashing (he slapped her in the face, giving her a real reason to hate him, thus unbalancing the 'hate' that controlled her), but the damage was done: Sue viewed her experience as being raped. She wanted revenge, so she confronted the Psycho-Man and payed him back (it is unknown what she did, although no death took place). Realizing that getting her powers meant a loss of innocence, but not getting the point until this 'rape' experience, Sue renamed herself the Invisible Woman. Sue comments about this experience to help Jean.<br /><br />AVENGERS features the death of Melter by the assassin Scourge, who made appearances in many Marvel stories killing off seemingly lame supervillains (with his motto "Justice is Served!"). Pity, I liked Melter.<br /><br />The retcon has Reed mentioning that the Cosmic Rays proved deadly for Jean, but only gave the FF their powers. Was it ever explained how Reed, Sue, Johnny, and Ben were able to tolerate such radiation? I'm reminded how it was explained that Bruce Banner, Jennifer, and Doc Samson possessed some physical toleration to Gamma radiation that would be deadly for others.<br /><br />Teebore, which artistic vision of Jean's space descent do you prefer? This story's Jean dying of old-movie disease (where you still look beautiful as you expire) or John Bolton's Jean the Cryptkeeper?angmc43@hotmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379700547226493861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-32282124043633599752013-08-01T15:56:28.629-05:002013-08-01T15:56:28.629-05:00Like you, that had always been the status quo for ...Like you, that had always been the status quo for me (in fact, I only started reading Marvel stuff in 2006, after she'd died <i>again</i>), so I didn't get that emotional reaction at seeing a story I cared about be erased.<br /><br />But, I will say: it almost seems pointless to have a character called Phoenix, have them die, and then not bring them back. That's what phoenixes (phoenices? not often you need a plural for that, obviously) do, after all. Certainly, there's an argument to be made that the revolving doors of the afterlife engender a level of cynicism in the reader. (I'd argue that it's by now just a convention of the genre.) But with Phoenix, death and resurrection is part of the point of the character.<br /><br />In some ways it baffles me that they've left her dead for as long as they have - longer than she was "dead" the first time - although like Claremont during the 1980s they certainly enjoy teasing the return.Abigail Bradyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13176919191948017238noreply@blogger.com