tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post6627379278600770969..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: The Walking Dead 4x03: IsolationAustin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-10678295186049624022013-11-05T05:02:31.819-06:002013-11-05T05:02:31.819-06:00I guess another way to put it, if you're going...<i>I guess another way to put it, if you're going to kill two innocent people you better be damned sure it's going to solve the problem.</i><br /><br />I think on this point we agree completely. I guess what I'm driving at is that I see Carol's actions not as stupid (except insofar as she might get found out) so much as an act of supreme vicious bloodthirst - the implication is that she'll kill anyone for the slightest chance of reducing the speed/chances of infection. I don't think it's stupid, it's just utterly inhuman and unacceptable. As I say, I'm entirely on-board with it being difficult to credit Carol having changed so much in the course of a month with almost no casualties, but I see a certain hideous logic underneath what she's doing.<br /><br />Fair point about the tree-branch; if it's long enough you can guarantee not getting within biting range. Of course, finding that branch might take time; other zombies might arrive, etc. But yes, I think this was almost entirely about Hershel wanting to get Carl out of the habit of killing. As well as it being a very Hershel thing to do, it's actually a good long-term strategy: a gun-happy teenager is going to be a problem if they meet other groups and need to practice a bit of diplomacy, or even if he takes a dislike to someone in the prison and things get heated.<br /><br />No worries for the episode number slip-up; the only thing I learned ahead of time was that Hershel wanted to make tea, which wasn't exactly too much of a burden. Thanks for changing it :)SpaceSquidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760939592584995876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-48417164919643812112013-11-04T13:10:02.767-06:002013-11-04T13:10:02.767-06:00@SpaceSquid - It's true I'm no medical exp...@SpaceSquid - It's true I'm no medical expert but I suppose we should note that Carol isn't either. So she's really just guessing that killing two people and burning their bodies might stop the plague. And, while I don't disagree that it COULD stop it, as you note, we have to look at probabilities here.<br /><br />You already had two people confirmed to have died of the sickness and two more infected. (All of these people, I believe, are unrelated.) I think, at that point, it was safe to assume the illness was already spreading.<br /><br />I guess another way to put it, if you're going to kill two innocent people you better be damned sure it's going to solve the problem.<br /><br />But I totally agree that a quarantine was needed and, frankly, they should've had a quarantine policy already set up. If you get sick you have to go to a separate cell block or something.<br /><br />As far as Carl not killing zombies go, I know it fits thematically to have him not kill the zombies as opposed to Carol but theme, in my opinion, should come second to plot.<br /><br />I think there also might be a bit of Hershel trying to stem Carl's sociopathic tendencies. Kind of like, normally you'll stomp on a cockroach when you see one but if you're with a kid with bloodlust in their eyes perhaps you decide not to in order to teach them respect for living things.<br /><br />But, I would argue that there are plenty of safe ways to kill a zombie. I know they shouldn't waste bullets (and I still say firing the gun might attract more zombies but that's only if the show is going with real life suppressors (in which a gun still makes a lot of noise) or Hollywood fictitious "silencers" (where a pistol just makes soft wisp of air)). They could just grab a thick tree branch and break its head in. <br /><br />Oh, and I apologize for the wrong episode number. I hope I didn't spoil anything!Dr. Bitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13568570859981368717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-74013056127288718562013-11-04T09:59:12.652-06:002013-11-04T09:59:12.652-06:00Now that I've seen this, I liked it a great de...Now that I've seen this, I liked it a great deal more than Dr Bitz and Teebore seemed to. Maybe it's just my line of work - which my girlfriend shares - but watching this gave us a lot of time to discuss medicine in Zombie-times, which is a fascinating subject.<br /><br />Which isn't to say the execution is perfect - no pun intended, given Carol was the biggest problem here. Really, though, I don't think her solution was <i>quite</i> as stupid as suggested (which isn't to say I think it was remotely acceptable, of course). Like I said last time, we're dealing with probabilities here. Every infected person you can isolate reduces the chance of further infection. The question isn't "Will this stop the disease?", it's "Will this reduce the chances of further infection?". The answer to that latter question is "Actually, it might". Quarantining is <i>always</i> sound policy, even with something like flu that has a gap between infection and the development of symptoms (and there are ways Carol could minimise the chances of infection herself whilst carrying the bodies).<br /><br />The real problem here - aside from Carol not bothering to ask a second, far more important question: "Is the likely small reduction in infection chances worth murdering two human beings over?" to which the answer strikes me as clearly "no" - is that quarantine was pretty much decided on as the correct course of action. That said, I guess Carol might argue they were taking far to long about the idea (too busy stumbling around in shock after the jailhouse shock), so took matters into her own hands. Looked at that way, you could actually argue Carol's actions are a response to even greater stupidity by the survivor's "council". <br /><br />All that said, you'd chivvy people along first, and then start moving the sick to a different block on your own. Jumping straight to horrible murder is just too much of a stretch.<br /><br /><i>I’m not sure what Hershel’s point about not killing the zombies because they didn’t need to was. The only good zombie is a dead zombie</i><br /><br />Like Mrs Teebore, I think there's an argument to be made that wasting bullets is poor practice (I'm also not sure how long that silencer will work, but that's not something I'm qualified to do more than speculate on). Killing it with a knife isn't without risks either; you could break or damage the knife, or be bitten. <br /><br />So Hershel, I think, was right on the merits - let's not forget they were dealing with a zombie neither inside their defences nor trying to push them over - but that's not why he said it. He's trying to get Carl out of the "step one: kill, step two: not care about step one" mentality. If nothing else, it acts as a thematic counter to Carol's new philosophy of reacting to any situation with as much unfeeling violence as possible.<br /><br />@Teebore <br /><br /><i>Also, a question: was it clear to anyone else what Rick saw at the crime scene that led him to suspect Carol?</i><br /><br />Was that when he started suspecting her? I thought he was just asking around, talked to Carol at the end, when she let something slip that made him work out what was going on. She certainly said <i>something</i> that made us both say "You just blew it, lady!"SpaceSquidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760939592584995876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-78325156112073598132013-10-31T09:18:31.074-05:002013-10-31T09:18:31.074-05:00But I suppose I can let it slide when you can do i...<i>But I suppose I can let it slide when you can do it safely within the walls of a prison field. Still, they might run out of space!</i><br /><br />I also question the sanitation of it, especially now that they're burying plague-ridden bodies. I mean, their principle water source is <i>right there</i>; how long before those decomposing bodies trickle down into the ground water? I feel like burning them would be a better way to go. <br /><br /><i>That officially puts them on par with velociraptors.</i><br /><br />Ha! Are you suggesting that soon the characters will learn how to use door handles? <br /><br /><i>But I'm not sure Rick's fist were the best tools to use to make the point.</i><br /><br />Rick's fists are always the best tools. <br /><br /><i>It’s nice to hear that Daryl would like to hunt down the Governor like Michonne but simply believes the trail is too cold to track.</i><br /><br />I also liked the quiet confirmation that Michonne is, indeed, hunting the Governor. Which we all kind of figured, so I'm glad they didn't feel the need to make the confirmation of that some big episode-ending revelation. <br /><br /><i>I’m not sure what Hershel’s point about not killing the zombies because they didn’t need to was. The only good zombie is a dead zombie. </i><br /><br />Exactly! You do need to kill the zombie. You need to kill every zombie you can. It's the only way you'll ever make world without zombies. <br /><br />Also, shouldn't Carl, of all people, know the dangers of not killing a zombie when you have the chance, considering he didn't kill a zombie when he could and it later killed Dale? I was honestly expecting Carol, when she was stupidly fixing the water, to get killed by the zombie Hershel told Carl not to shoot. <br /><br />And Hershel couldn't have been worried about the noise, since Carl had his silencer on the the gun. Mrs. Teebore suggested maybe he felt it was a waste of a bullet, which, maybe, but then kill it with a knife or something. <br /><br /><i>Maybe she never took high school biology but I'd hope she'd know that just because someone isn't showing symptoms of an illness doesn't mean they're not infected.</i><br /><br />Exactly! I mean heck, Carol could have been infected when she was killing them (which would be pretty wryly hilarious if the show goes that way). <br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-39322196176074760052013-10-31T09:18:12.482-05:002013-10-31T09:18:12.482-05:00So I feel like this is one of those episode where,...So I feel like this is one of those episode where, if the show hadn't done it, I'd be complaining that they never fully addressed the ramifications of the group being ravaged by illness. <br /><br />But now that they did it, I'm like, "eh, that wasn't terribly exciting or compelling." Maybe I'm just impossible to please...<br /><br />I did really like Hershel's speech before going into the prison, and really, this was a pretty great episode for Hershel. <br /><br />Also, this was a great episode for Beth. Based on her first conversation with Maggie, she's the smartest fucking character on this show. She should be in charge. <br /><br />Then there's Carol. Look, when I said I wanted more development for the characters, this isn't what I meant. I'm also really confused about where this is is going, because I'm not sure what her goals are. Did she really think killing Karen and David would help (because, as you say, that's just stupid - there's doing something wrong for a good reason, then there's doing something wrong for no good reason)? Or is the show actually going to legitimately turn her into some kind of psychopath? If so, well, I guess that could be kind of interesting. <br /><br />Also, a question: was it clear to anyone else what Rick saw at the crime scene that led him to suspect Carol? I can see how, once the suspicion had been planted, you could come to the conclusion that Carol had done it, but I wasn't sure what led Rick there initially. Maybe we're not supposed to know (but I did really like that Rick actually did investigate the crime, given his background and all). <br /><br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-43951314512973746522013-10-31T09:07:46.636-05:002013-10-31T09:07:46.636-05:00This is mainly my fault for not paying enough atte...This is mainly my fault for not paying enough attention, Dr Bitz, but would you mind correcting the title of this post, please? I was a paragraph in before I realised this is episode 4x03, which won't air over here in the UK until tomorrow.SpaceSquidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760939592584995876noreply@blogger.com