tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post6376681163163106650..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining New Mutants #87Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger103125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-14807495286998227492017-03-02T14:40:10.539-06:002017-03-02T14:40:10.539-06:00I agree 100%. I stopped soon after X-Cutioner'...I agree 100%. I stopped soon after X-Cutioner's Song, and other than the blip that was the Kelly/Segal era, I didn't come back until Morrison took over.Mike-ELhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02840254150021796923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-32101713394703982212017-03-02T14:28:12.044-06:002017-03-02T14:28:12.044-06:00I agree 100%. I stopped soon after X-Cutioner'...I agree 100%. I stopped soon after X-Cutioner's Song, and other than the blip that was the Kelly/Segal era, I didn't come back until Morrison took over.Mike-ELhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02840254150021796923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-56311660587430614952015-04-18T14:44:22.411-05:002015-04-18T14:44:22.411-05:00... hey. A while back I noted at Matt's blog t...... hey. A while back I noted at Matt's blog that the cover of this issue may owe something to that of The New Teen Titans Annual #2, but apparently everyone at the internet seem to know that the inspiration (quotes optional according to your own liking) for it was in fact Avengers #145.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-82262364410167710552015-04-14T10:42:22.085-05:002015-04-14T10:42:22.085-05:00Teebore: It'll be interesting to see if the ri...Teebore: <i>It'll be interesting to see if the rise of comic book movies and TV shows helps stave off this trend, bringing in, if not more kids, at least more new readers. But even then, they'll likely have an inclination towards the character(s) whose filmed adaptation led them to comics in the first place.</i><br /><br />You may be onto something there. Miles Morales and Kamala Khan seem to have raised uncommonly lot of fans for new characters, and a portion of that audience may be totally new readers who are tagging along for the well-marketed diversity angle for the comics medium, having had little interest for the medium before.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-24978019922237029092015-04-14T10:30:45.607-05:002015-04-14T10:30:45.607-05:00@Blam: but since "forearm" is a word and...@Blam: <i>but since "forearm" is a word and since everybody actually has forearms his name should be Fourarm and that should be the pun.</i><br /><br />Yeah, I'm not sure why Liefeld went with Forearm instead of the more obvious Fourarm. <br /><br /><i>So what's the over/under on how many days they'd have spent floating there before going to find shelter had the plot not contrived for Ship to show up within hours?</i><br /><br />I'd set the over/under at "far too many". :) <br /><br /><i>Did Marvel just drop in a white background on the digital edition instead of red for the hell of it, or was there another variant?</i><br /><br />As far as I know, that was a Marvel Unlimited "for the hell of it" change. I was puzzled by it too, when I saw it. Maybe there was a later variant with which I'm unfamiliar, but as far as I know, there was just the original red and then the gold second printing. <br /><br />@Nathan: <i>So who was Cable originally intended as?</i><br /><br />As wwkd5 said, either a younger Stryfe or an older Cannonball, though it seems even those two are ideas Liefeld came to later, having initially created the character as little more than "gun-totting mentor for the New Mutants who is clearly tonally different than Professor X". <br /><br />We can certainly speculate on better origins for the character, but there's a difference between what we may like the intentions to have been and what they actually were. Here, at least, we have a pretty clear sense of the actual intentions. <br /><br /><i>So Cable is Doug Ramsey revived and transmoded:) What are the details of this theory, and where from? </i><br /><br />If memory serves, "Cable is Doug Ramsey!" is one of the various teases that gets tossed out between now and when Cable's actual origin is revealed, along with Cable is Cannonball, Cable is Ahab, Cable is Nathaniel Richards, and, of course, Cable is Nathan Summers. <br /><br />From all accounts, it sounds like the "Cable is ___" stuff was all very free form, just a bunch of different writers teasing different stuff to maintain the air of mystery surrounding the character until a definitive reveal was settled on. <br /><br />@Teemu: <i>f our esteemed host so wishes, there actually might be a call for "We're getting Cable!!" segment, where various hints of the identity of our mystery man could be brought up to help us solve the mystery as the story starts to unwind</i><br /><br />I was indeed planning on starting just such a section with the next NM review. Not sure on the name yet; "We're Getting Cable" is good though. "The Cable Guy" was my work-in-progress title. <br /><br /> Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-75037735925410470072015-04-14T10:17:22.927-05:002015-04-14T10:17:22.927-05:00@Nathan: The reason the MLF don't kill Cable ...@Nathan: <i> The reason the MLF don't kill Cable is because Stryfe stops them</i><br /><br />Good enough as a No-Prize explanation, but there's nothing in the text itself to suggest that, especially since Strobe specifically talks about finishing him off (using him for target practice), but doesn't. <br /><br />@Teemu: <i>At some point the lasting A-list character creations just stopped happening, barring those few exceptions like Cable, Deadpool... did the comics media reach a saturation point of some sort sometime around the Secret Wars, or do anyone have any theory on that?</i><br /><br />I've read a lot of thoughts about this, and while the exact point where new characters seemed to stop sticking (and how "sticking" is defined) is debatable (some have even suggested that Wolverine is the only non-Silver Age character to consistently hold down his own title, though that was before Deadpool became the sales juggernaut he is now), I think it boils down to two things: <br /><br />1. The comic book audience gets injected with much less new blood relative to readers who have stuck around since they were kids these days than in the past, so the audience as a whole already has their favorites and is less likely to embrace a brand new character like they would have as kids. <br /><br />It'll be interesting to see if the rise of comic book movies and TV shows helps stave off this trend, bringing in, if not more kids, at least more new readers. But even then, they'll likely have an inclination towards the character(s) whose filmed adaptation led them to comics in the first place. <br /><br />2. Since the rise of independent comics in the late 70s/early 80s (tied to the rise of the Direct Market) and cemented by the success of Image in the early 90s, there are tons more avenues for creators to successfully publish their work in a manner that still affords them complete control over the characters. So even if creators are working for one of the Big Two, they're more likely to save their best creations for a creator-owned project where they get to still own the character they create. <br /><br />I mean, we can quibble over the quality of the various series Mark Millar has launched that led to movie adaptations, but the fact remains, he's made tons of money on his creator-owned series whereas, had he done that work for Marvel or DC, they'd be making the bulk of the money off the adaptations. <br /><br />So nowadays, there's less incentive for a creator to give Marvel or DC the next Wolverine, Cable, Deadpool, etc. when they can just keep it for themselves and reap the full benefits should the character become successful. <br /><br /><i> Also, 'lightening' warning.</i><br /><br />Goddamnit, I just can't get that right...<br /><br />@Nathan: <i>We forgot the X-characters that probably did stick the most were Blink and Marrow, both designed by Joe Madureira. </i><br /><br />Blink, I think, moreso than Marrow. Blink came back in the 00s, made it into a movie, etc. Marrow's been pretty much forgotten since her late 90s heyday. <br /><br /><i>Speaking of Texeira's Punisher War Journal there was mention in its letter pages at the time that they were proposing a "Justice League of Vigilantes" that would include Frank, Moon Knight, so we should try and figure out who else they had in mind too</i><br /><br />They kind of did that with a Marvel Knights series called...Marvel Knights, in the early 00s. The roster was, IIRC, Daredevil, Black Widow, Moon Knight, Shang Chi, Cloak and Dagger, with the Punisher loosely affiliated. <br /><br /><br /><br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-62377215199970420692015-04-14T07:58:32.899-05:002015-04-14T07:58:32.899-05:00@Nathan, Doug wore what essentially was Byrne'...@Nathan, Doug wore what essentially was Byrne's Cyclops costume done totally in very light blue, with a pouchy/padded grey vest covering his torso and the whole ensemble crowned with a cautious thigh pouch hanging from a strap on his belt. Only thing missing is a metal arm, a massive gun, and some decades of age and some bulkiness brought with it. Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-79049298779305897062015-04-14T06:42:48.538-05:002015-04-14T06:42:48.538-05:00Just FYI (where Y = anyone who isn't already a...<br>Just FYI (where Y = anyone who isn't already aware): Once we hit 101 comments, Blogger will create a second comments page — unless things have changed since the last time I saw this happen. The first was over at Nikki Stafford's blog during <i>Lost</i>'s heyday. While it feels like an achievement it also means toggling betwixt pages, either through the back/forward buttons or by keeping another tab open, if you want to reread earlier bits of the conversation.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-33656755874390887912015-04-14T05:36:39.552-05:002015-04-14T05:36:39.552-05:00@Teemu: Thanks. Re: Annual #10, or any others, I ...@Teemu: Thanks. Re: Annual #10, or any others, I can't take a look as I'm a blinkie these days;)<br /><br />But what I took away from 'Lock in that annual was that Mojoworld had access to the transmode virus (similar to how Claremont suggested Genosha did with their transmodation process, hey what was up with that when Warlock was the first Technarch on Earth). Nathan Adlerhttp://fanfix.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-50800087007746745022015-04-14T05:03:53.952-05:002015-04-14T05:03:53.952-05:00If our esteemed host so wishes, there actually mig...If our esteemed host so wishes, there actually might be a call for "We're getting Cable!!" segment, where various hints of the identity of our mystery man could be brought up to help us solve the mystery as the story starts to unwind, not unlike what Matt did on his blog for Hobgoblin when going through Roger Stern's Spider-Man run. Though I like TOTALLY understand if he feels we so do not need any more encouraging.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-53657012208161749102015-04-14T04:49:49.998-05:002015-04-14T04:49:49.998-05:00@Nathan, the horror got uncautiously unleashed on ...@Nathan, the horror got uncautiously unleashed on the comments for X-amining NEW MUTANTS #60, the Doug's death issue, and I learned I wasn't alone with it.<br /><br />But shortly, take a look at Doug's costume in UNCANNY ANNUAL #10 and then try coming back to tell me that isn't young, pre-partly-techno-organic Cable tauntlingly sporting a Summers visor. Doug Ram, Day Spring.<br /><br />Mike Loughlin mentioned there how he considers that issue to be the Rosetta stone for an era, and I believe we are now at the other end of the wormhole.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-37315365498988462872015-04-14T03:30:11.226-05:002015-04-14T03:30:11.226-05:00@Teemu: So Cable is Doug Ramsey revived and transm...@Teemu: So Cable is Doug Ramsey revived and transmoded:) What are the details of this theory, and where from?Nathan Adlerhttp://fanfix.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-34993630317597192832015-04-13T21:00:46.675-05:002015-04-13T21:00:46.675-05:00Longshot with his naivety and superpower that need...Longshot with his naivety and superpower that needs pure motives is pretty much as far as you can be from Cable, and I find for example the Doug Ramsey theory much easier to buy. Even if he did have peculiar artificial skin and Mojo is someone who deals with some serious cybernetics and has some history with his "sister".Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-24640709682453244232015-04-13T09:21:27.282-05:002015-04-13T09:21:27.282-05:00"So who was Cable originally intended as?&quo..."So who was Cable originally intended as?"<br /><br />Either the younger version of Stryfe or a future version of Cannonball seemed to be the 2 early ideas initially favored by Liefeld.<br /><br />"Recall Longshot became disillusioned with himself right before the Siege Perilous Fiasco. (This was from how Inferno ended and happened in Uncanny 248.) He literally disassembled himself, talking to Storm, and said something to the effect of “I need to become better, stronger… a better fighter.” He was then not seen again until his appearance in X-Men #5-7."<br /><br />No, Longshot told Storm he needed to go find himself. As per the summary of #248 from uncannyxmen.net:<br /><br />"Storm turns to see a phantom image of Longshot. The X-Man's ghostly form resembles his normal one, save that it is translucent, lacking color, and for some reason lacks a left eye.<br />Indicating that he is very busy, the phantom Longshot picks up a piece of a right arm, severed at the shoulder and the hand. With purpose, Longshot attaches the severed limb to himself. Longshot shows great relief and satisfaction when he realizes that it fits. Scattered on the ground around him are the rest of his body parts, which Longshot pleads with Storm not to step on as she approaches. When Storm asks what he is doing, Longshot simply replies that he is trying to find himself. He explains that everyone and everything that he encounters has a sense of history. He himself lacks this. All that he knows about himself began the moment that he teleported into the X-Men's Danger Room. Claiming that he needs to find where he comes from, and the purpose of his existence, Longshot tells Storm that as much as he does not want to leave, he must go. There must be more to what he is out there, and to be whole, he must find it."<br /><br />wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-16917422783261508022015-04-13T07:21:29.062-05:002015-04-13T07:21:29.062-05:00@Nathan Adler: But, if Cable is Longshot, where di...@Nathan Adler: But, if Cable is Longshot, where did the extra fingers come from :)<br /><br />That scene in X-tinction Agenda in which Cable loses his power and can't control his bionic arm is hilarious. It's so clear they had no idea what Cable was supposed to be besides "tough guy with guns."<br /><br />Re being "THE Mike Loughlin:" I am probably missing the joke and/or I'm not who you think I am because I have no known significance to this timeline. Unless I do something cool in the future and you really are a time traveler, in which case I hope you didn't convolute my past when I wasn't looking.<br /><br />@Teemu: wow, now I can't unsee Cablemedian.<br /><br />- Mike LoughlinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-33872977010081498742015-04-13T06:31:06.403-05:002015-04-13T06:31:06.403-05:00I forgot to mention another idea I floated over tw...I forgot to mention another idea I floated over twenty years ago:<br />The retconning of Cable as Nathan Summers doesn’t make sense, especially the later elements such as his using his powers to suppress the TO virus, which makes scenes that happened during the X-Tinction Agenda even more strange - when Cable’s and everyone else’s powers were shut off, shouldn’t the virus have gone crazy?<br /><br />And it also makes scenes in early X-Force issues, where Cable’s fake skin was damaged and he looked the Terminator also strange…of course, if he was using fake skin to cover up part of his face, why not cover up the arm as well? I guess he thought a cybernetic arm looked cool…but I digress…<br /><br />So who was Cable originally intended as?<br /><br />What if he was originally intended to be Longshot who disappeared during the whole Siege Perilous fiasco? The glowing eye and the name Cable support this. As did Longshot’s wish to become “a better fighter”.<br /><br />Recall Longshot became disillusioned with himself right before the Siege Perilous Fiasco. (This was from how Inferno ended and happened in Uncanny 248.) He literally disassembled himself, talking to Storm, and said something to the effect of “I need to become better, stronger… a better fighter.” He was then not seen again until his appearance in <br />X-Men #5-7.<br /><br />Now this does not mean that idea was entertained for long, but the name Cable (TV themes in Mojoworld), the glowing eye (both of their left eyes glow), the idea about becoming a better fighter and the mysterious arrival of Cable shortly after Longshot’s disappearance lend credence to this theory.<br /><br />Scratch that, Thomas and William Maximoff it is;)Nathan Adlerhttp://fanfix.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-86403623975102229042015-04-12T09:28:09.248-05:002015-04-12T09:28:09.248-05:00Oh bloody hell, I did not know of such character, ...Oh bloody hell, I did not know of such character, and on a comic drawn by Walt Simonson, too! Pissing myself over the idea that Imperial Forces appatently had strong policy against cyborgs. "Lord Vader, Lord Vader! We found a 'borg! May we burn 'im?"Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-73750717068382870432015-04-12T05:07:00.165-05:002015-04-12T05:07:00.165-05:00@Teemu: Alan Moore would be rolling in his grave b...@Teemu: Alan Moore would be rolling in his grave before he's dead if he'd picked up on that. And we'd never have gotten his Supreme.<br /><br />Don't also forget Valance the Hunter though.Nathan Adlerhttp://fanfix.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-28434329763808369382015-04-12T04:55:40.485-05:002015-04-12T04:55:40.485-05:00Cable on that cover though... dye the top of his h...Cable on that cover though... dye the top of his hair brown and draw him a moustache, and what you got is Eddie Blake/the Comedian from that one title that inspired the comics of the 90's. Not so when drawn by Liefeld on the inner pages, but the cover I can't unsee. Gloves, hairy arms, shoulder thingies and the straps for them...Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-10510549459613619352015-04-12T01:02:41.091-05:002015-04-12T01:02:41.091-05:00@Blam: Helping the thread reach 87;)
3 more to go...@Blam: Helping the thread reach 87;)<br /><br />3 more to go:)Nathan Adlerhttp://fanfix.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-62674485836039144802015-04-12T00:21:55.405-05:002015-04-12T00:21:55.405-05:00@Nathan: // @Blam: Are we sure that wasn't Yuk...<br>@Nathan: <i>// @Blam: Are we sure that wasn't Yukio? Otherwise who do you propose Claremont would reveal her to be? //</i><br /><br />I don't. Honestly it was just a callback gag.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-74888815435918242822015-04-11T23:28:14.487-05:002015-04-11T23:28:14.487-05:00@ Anonymous: Wow, THE Mike Loughlin. I am astoun...@ Anonymous: Wow, THE Mike Loughlin. I am astounded and humbled at the same time:) <br /><br />And I know you didn't mean his little charged cards, I was just being facetious;)<br /><br />Glad you like the idea of it being the tiny skull, so now it’s origin please:) <br /><br />I lost my sight by the time Wisdom became a more popular character at Marvel, so no idea how. But Mystique running ops alongside Black Air isn’t outside the realm of possibility (for me it would be though, again being a Claremont-purist). Speaking of Black Air, did anyone ever think the smoke monster from Lost was stolen wholesale from Kirby's Diablo, the Demon from the Fifth Dimension?<br /><br />As for what makes it more likely it was DuChamp is he was of the lineage of Seth Phalkon, who similarly had auburn hair and RED EYES. And he was a Templar. Oh am I going to town on the comments re: that thread once we get to #266;) <br /><br />Destiny and Cable, say what!?<br /><br />Hey, I noticed we've surpassed 80. Can we reach 87, the number of this issue?Nathan Adlerhttp://fanfix.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-55394873457700719572015-04-11T22:27:30.624-05:002015-04-11T22:27:30.624-05:00... aaand there's Marvel Comics ruined for me ...... aaand there's Marvel Comics ruined for me forevermore, with the retcon inserts getting a totally new meaning with all the people going "Cable!". Moira going "Cable!". <i>Wolverine</i> going "Cable!".<br /><br />For someone most of the timing keeping people's futures hidden, she certainly passed the phone number around.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-34906128322898160172015-04-11T22:14:57.232-05:002015-04-11T22:14:57.232-05:00So that's why he's called "cable"...So <i>that's</i> why he's called "cable"!<br /><br />"Irene, that's pretty harsh name you got me under on your speed dial. Objectyfying."<br />"Sorry, Nathan." *wry knowing Destiny smile*Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-18942978662621333672015-04-11T21:46:16.490-05:002015-04-11T21:46:16.490-05:00@ Nathan Adler: yes?
Oh, and I didn't intend...@ Nathan Adler: yes? <br /><br />Oh, and I didn't intend for Gambit's little charged cards to be the McGuffin, the sex merely being part of the cover. I like the idea of it being the tiny skull. <br /><br />Pete Wisdom? Maybe you or someone else could line up the times to tie her being in England to events in Captain Britain's series. I haven't read most of them yet. <br /><br />I had to look up DuChamp... Frenchie? Sure. I'd love for Gambit's father to be Batroc, although he might be too young. But c'mon, ze two mozt outray-zjus French accents in the MU, teaming up as father and son to jump around in ridiculous costumes and fail to beat Captain America? I'd buy that comic.<br /><br />@Teemu: Ha! That's alright, Destiny had a piece on the side for when Raven was out of town, eventually revealed to be... The Man Called Cable! <br /><br />- Mike LoughlinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com