tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post6121095223105984352..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining Uncanny X-Men #238Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-42213025044109483682015-03-14T18:34:56.141-05:002015-03-14T18:34:56.141-05:00I wonder if Wolverine was referring to being a sla...I wonder if Wolverine was referring to being a slave of the Canadian government during his Weapon X days?Joe Pacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08347462635438263614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-50255373453338563542014-06-30T02:38:03.763-05:002014-06-30T02:38:03.763-05:00Sugar Man, arggggg. What a waste. I believe that...Sugar Man, arggggg. What a waste. I believe that Peter David was going to have a different person - much more Sinister - be the one behind the country. In X-Factor 83, 88, 89 or 91 there is a mysterious door that opens in Genosha and it has a character that has the diamond chest and forehead emblems but gets dropped completely and left for dust as X-Factor than falls into complete crap from that point forward. <br /><br />I love Marc's art in these issues, his Goblin Queen messed with my 12-14 year old brain completely. I had comic artist Tyler Kirkham draw a sketch of her onetime at a con, I'll have to post it when I find it, it's really amazing. <br /><br />This is from a long time ago but since I recently read through all these blog posts it has stuck in my mind and I didn't want to post on something that was written years/months back.<br /><br />Chris Claremont co-plotted What if 32 and 33 which covered what if the Phoenix had lived. The Butte where Jean and Scott got it on is shown in this series to be where Rachel is conceived and then it shows her as a baby later on. While not technically cannon, I always have thought of this as proving that Rachel is the daughter of the Phoenix and Scott and not actually of Jean, thus making it much harder for her to have a relationship with Jean going forward when they are around each other, etc. where as her relationship with Scott is strange but not as distant as Jean's. <br /><br />Anyways, just wanted to bring that part up as I've never seen anyone talk about those What If issues when the topic of Rachel has been brought up in the past. Scott Churchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795112175606617848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-45866000912059990352014-06-23T23:30:54.837-05:002014-06-23T23:30:54.837-05:00Given how much writers post-2000 seem to enjoy ret...Given how much writers post-2000 seem to enjoy retconning that Xavier was an rotten malicious dick all along, I'm surprised nobody has retconned him not only knowing about Genosha, but somehow also indirectly contributing to the mutate process somehow as well. wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-76760220464997054032014-06-23T21:51:31.192-05:002014-06-23T21:51:31.192-05:00@Anonymous: // Even if they don't know they...<br>@Anonymous: <i>// Even if they don't know they're slaves, Xavier, Magneto, Emma Frost, etc. should have heard about it by word of mouth. //</i><br /><br />That's why I said it "strains credulity" — but I'm still, however marginally, glad that we were told that they <i>don't</i> know (so we can No-Prize it away if we want rather than stew in the impossibility of their not knowing) instead of getting some retcon of them just shrugging or not having gotten around to addressing the screaming clusterf--- of a mutant slave-state yet.<br /><br />I appreciate the rundown-reminder of Maddie and Alex's budding relationship to this point.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-468716829564936442014-06-21T03:49:07.502-05:002014-06-21T03:49:07.502-05:00The more offensive bit about Dark Beast is that it...The more offensive bit about Dark Beast is that it took this supposed genius 20 years to realize that there was a 616-version of him, in a world full of AoA doppelgangers.Frenchienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-61380946094259307732014-06-19T19:22:21.872-05:002014-06-19T19:22:21.872-05:00"Even though it kind-of strains credulity, I&..."Even though it kind-of strains credulity, I'm happy to have it established that the world at large is ignorant of the situation just so Xavier, Magneto, Emma Frost, and the like don't look like complete chumps for never having engaged it."<br />But that's the problem- the dialogue makes it clear that ordinary Genoshans know the mutants are laborers. Even if they don't know they're slaves, Xavier, Magneto, Emma Frost, etc. should have heard about it by word of mouth. <br />"Has a relationship between them been established (he asked, not really wanting to look back through the past dozen issues) or is this forwardness an indication of Maddie's new personality bubbling up?"<br />They became close in X-Men 223 and Maddie rested her head on Alex's shoulder in issue 227. In issue 232, Maddie wonders how Alex would react to seeing her naked and in issue 235, Alex gets angry enough to kill the Genoshans when they grabbed Maddie. So probably they were attracted to each other but didn't want to do anything out of concern for Scott and Lorna so Maddie's forwardness is an example of the change in her.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-63779509004273168042014-06-19T17:18:33.636-05:002014-06-19T17:18:33.636-05:00Blam: And then a split-second later he worries tha...Blam: <i>And then a split-second later he worries that Maddie was still in there — !!! — until she shows up in the next panel to plant a big ol' smooch on him. It sure felt like Claremont having to script over some business Silvestri drew that he thought he needed to explain away.</i><br /><br />Nope, Maddie was in there and that was exactly where Maddie got the fatal damage she had to be put into a cocoon to heal from. The "Maddie" appearing from totally different direction and acting uncharacteristically from the first minute is the s'ymultacrum immediately starting to give in for the lust and other stuff in the usual way of the redheaded women of the Grey family in the face of a power-amp.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-7400325543543793422014-06-19T15:24:55.209-05:002014-06-19T15:24:55.209-05:00// [Maddie] then appears in her Goblin Queen perso...<br><i>// [Maddie] then appears in her Goblin Queen persona //<br /><br />I'll</i> say. That plunging bare midriff with underboob is so blatantly immodest that it cries out for some kind of rationalization, however suspect. Perhaps in addition to the whole sexual-empowerment deal — if ya got it flaunt it and use it to distract your adversaries — it's some kind of commentary on Maddie's loss of the child she once carried in that amazingly tight abdomen?<br /><br /><i>// even though they technically haven't been published yet //</i><br /><br />I think they just haven't been published yet, period. (Sorry.)<br /><br /><i>// He also stresses the importance of keeping Genosha's mutant slaves a secret, because the rest of the world would both condemn Genosha and covet the process //</i><br /><br />Even though it kind-of strains credulity, I'm happy to have it established that the world at large is ignorant of the situation just so Xavier, Magneto, Emma Frost, and the like don't look like complete chumps for never having engaged it.<br /><br /><i>// Havok blows up the Citadel for the X-Men. //</i><br /><br />And then a split-second later he worries that Maddie was still in there — !!! — until she shows up in the next panel to plant a big ol' smooch on him. It sure felt like Claremont having to script over some business Silvestri drew that he thought he needed to explain away.<br /><br /><i>// Upon being reunited, Havok and Maddy kiss, with Maddy earlier casually referring to Havok as "lover". //</i><br /><br />I was gonna mention that. Has a relationship between them been established (he asked, not really wanting to look back through the past dozen issues) or is this forwardness an indication of Maddie's new personality bubbling up?<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-56594438537178415622014-06-19T14:43:31.843-05:002014-06-19T14:43:31.843-05:00Maybe it's because Genosha has never done much...Maybe it's because Genosha has never done much for me -- the only time I ever found it interesting was when Magneto was its ruler -- but I've never understood the big deal about Sugar Man being retroactively "behind the curtain". In fact, that actually made Genosha feel a bit more important to me at the time.<br /><br />I don't think it takes anything away from these earlier stories, either. The only part of it I don't like is that he was apparently sitting there for twenty years or whatever, though the various incursions by the X-Men, and did nothing. In other words, I'm bugged by the continuity glitches the idea creates, but not at all by the idea itself.<br /><br />Dark Beast founding the Morlocks, on the other hand, is just a silly idea all around.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-40478093478607964042014-06-19T13:09:08.742-05:002014-06-19T13:09:08.742-05:00So, in other words, it's not real Maddie, but....So, in other words, it's not real Maddie, but... a s'ymulacrum.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-84068960503738595632014-06-19T13:02:01.984-05:002014-06-19T13:02:01.984-05:00The Limbo demons actually amped up a mystic carbon...The Limbo demons actually amped up a mystic carbon copy of Maddie, who was driven mad by the influx of power and and the feels stemming up from her failed marriage. The real Maddie is healing up in a cocoon somewhere.<br /><br />About Wipeout's stout opt-out for the eventual fallout of Maddie's failed power-out, he was just saying that she had no powers at the time she was wiped sometime prior the mutate process. N'astirh called at her when the process was already going, either powering up her in the process then or otherwise the whole massacre was possibly done by the demons doing Maddie's bidding rather than by herself with Goblyn powers. And by Maddie I of course mean the mystic carbon copy of hers.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-13170627119685595042014-06-19T10:21:23.925-05:002014-06-19T10:21:23.925-05:00"As the Genoshan's watch the recordings o..."As the Genoshan's watch the recordings of the mindscan performed on Madelyne, they hear a song playing in her mind from Steeleye Span, which is the group whose lead singer (Maddie Prior) inspired the character's name."<br /><br />And the little-girl-in-pigtails avatar that appears there is a reference to the girl from Avengers Annual 10 who calls herself "Maddie Prior." She says the same line, too, or a variation on it (i.e. "I was sick but now I'm better"). I love that.<br /><br />Also, the Steeleye Span song that she's said to be singing, "Gone to America," opens with the line "Married him in April, lost him in July." That was a revelation to me, when I finally heard that song. What a perfect sentiment for Maddie to express, after Scott's abandonment. (And given how Marvel time works, three months is barely hyperbole.)<br /><br />(Sidebar: For what it's worth, the singer spells her name "Maddy." I wonder if Claremont always did "Maddie" as a dodge in case the lawyers came a-calling? And changed the last name from "Prior" to "Pryor" for the same reason? Good instinct in any case, considering that character-assassination that he and Weezie eventually wrought on the character for "Inferno.")Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298753675007196538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-55928648114878942082014-06-19T00:19:44.957-05:002014-06-19T00:19:44.957-05:00"Shockingly, things don't get better"..."Shockingly, things don't get better"<br /><br />They certainly don't get better for the X-folk either, as far as their dealings with the Genoshans go.<br /><br />"As the Genoshan's watch the recordings of the mindscan performed on Madelyne, they hear a song playing in her mind"<br /><br />You might say it is the song within her, building towards it's (inevitable) crescendo...<br /><br />"that the technology involved in the creation of Genoshan mutates and the Genegineer's specific know-how in that field came from Sugar Man"<br /><br />One of the worst and most useless retcons EVER in the history of the X-universe.<br /><br />"Jenny Ransome has begun the transformation into a mutate, and has grown larger and stronger as a result"<br /><br />Interesting. Don't we see later on during X-tinction Agenda that it seems to a process which you only do once, and then it's done? Also, why would she need to be larger and stronger to manipulate rocks? I guess they need her to be tougher to survive the mines or something.<br /><br />"Claremont does the best he can to end the story on a satisfying note, and for the most part, he succeeds."<br /><br />It would have been unrealistic for them to flip the country overnight in one story. Heck, the slaves were freed how long ago in the US, and there is still institutionalized racism?<br /><br />One other problem with Genosha is that nobody seems to know what to do with it, or rather, they can't really use it unless it's as an allegory du jour. Especially once CC leaves.<br /><br />As for this story itself...great concept, good execution but not a favorite of mine. It does (for me) drag out in parts, and I am split about whether or not I'd enjoy it more had it been one issue less. And CC does at least follow up on Genosha later on.<br /><br />But hey, for now, the match has been lit, and you-know-what is about to be ignited...<br />wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-34160183806058128392014-06-18T22:02:00.296-05:002014-06-18T22:02:00.296-05:00Note that this issue Maddie doesn't seem to re...Note that this issue Maddie doesn't seem to remember what she did as the Goblin Queen and Wipeout says she has no powers. I have to wonder if Claremont was going for something different then what actually saw print in Inferno.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-26857051722887323342014-06-18T20:01:29.192-05:002014-06-18T20:01:29.192-05:00I wonder if people would be as upset about the Sug...I wonder if people would be as upset about the Sugar Man retcon if Sugar Man wasn't such a god awful character. Although, I guess Dark Beast wasn't a bad character and his retroactive involvement with the Morlocks was pretty terrible, too. <br /><br />I definitely take a selective approach to X-Men continuity. I generally ignore that the Jean who died in the Dark Phoenix Saga wasn't Jean and that Xorn wasn't Magneto. As long as it doesn't warp continuity too much, I can overlook retcons I don't like. Also, Chuck Austen never wrote X-Men in "my" continuity. Most of Scott Lobdell's run after AoA is out. It makes me a much happier camper.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14447265712189987074noreply@blogger.com