tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post5417948536095280103..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining X-Men #107Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-17138749804959941042015-02-10T06:21:18.918-06:002015-02-10T06:21:18.918-06:00In Black Goliath #5, Sharra is referenced in the c...In Black Goliath #5, Sharra is referenced in the context of Sharra's Forge, the cruellest terrain on the cruellest of planets, Kirgar. The forge was named, "in bitter irony," for the mother goddess of legend. In this story, the alien Derath references Kirgar as "once the throneworld of a mighty empire which collapsed a million cycles ago… leaving all of its glorious cities to crumble into dust."<br /><br />Derath had heard of the planet Kirgar and its legends, but, like most others, believed it to be a legend. But on one mission he discovered it as the desolate (desert and mountains) second planet from the blue-white star Dharhalla.<br /> <br />The planets former stronghold was buried beneath the planet's sands, and had stood inviolate for ten thousand centuries…<br /> <br />When the last warlord of Kirgar died, he left a guardian to protect his stronghold, a 15 foot tall axe-wielding robot called Mortag that activated upon people entering the stronghold.<br /> <br />Black Goliath, along with Celia and Keith Jackson were banished to Kirgar by a beam weapon powered by neutron star matter.<br /> <br />It was never clear whether this was the planet, The World, on which stood the M'Kraan Crystal, but the terrain was comparable to that in Uncanny X-Men #107-108.<br /> <br />If Kirgar was another planet, perhaps the creators of the M'Kraan attempted it on other planets, playing around with neutron stars first and then ramping up after there!?<br /> <br />Dune cats (tiger-like creatures) survived on the planet, so perhaps Kirgar was meant to evoke a feline race (just as the Shi'ar were avian)?<br /><br />Of further interest is the beam weapon that sent Black Goliath to Kirgar, called the Z-Ray. Did the Z stand for "zero energy" that Jack of Hearts was able to generate? The Z-Ray was first used by Stilt-Man. What the frell was Stilt-Man in search of an alien energy source for? The weapon is later destroyed by Darkstar, a wielder of the Darkforce! Hey maybe Wilbur Day's suit could be from an empty M'Kraan guardian even;)?Nathan Adlerhttp://fanfix.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-54026059702613359552012-12-10T09:59:55.785-06:002012-12-10T09:59:55.785-06:00@Harry: I always saw this more as an explanation f...@Harry: <i>I always saw this more as an explanation for why we haven't really seen them much since #65 compared to other alien races.</i><br /><br />That definitely fits as well. <br /><br /><i>On that note, if there's one thing I hate about the Silver Age ... it's the way in which random alien races will be created for a single story arc</i><br /><br />Yeah, that's always bugged me too. It's definitely a function of the times: LOTS of stuff gets introduced randomly and forgotten in Silver Age comics, since no expected anyone to ever re-read them or remember the details for more than a year or two (before the readers "grew out of" comics), but it can still be annoying. <br /><br />Though I do enjoy it when later writers come along and bring some order to the randomness. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-69807316850426844112012-12-07T23:35:08.281-06:002012-12-07T23:35:08.281-06:00Lilandra refers to the Z'Nox as a "minor,...<i>Lilandra refers to the Z'Nox as a "minor, freebooting race", a quick way to establish the power of the Shi'ar by having them comment on the last, and to this point, most fearsome, alien race the X-Men encountered.</i><br /><br />I always saw this more as an explanation for why we haven't really seen them much since #65 compared to other alien races.<br /><br />On that note, if there's one thing I hate about the Silver Age (quick digression here - the majority of comic books I read when I started getting into comics were Silver Age stuff, back in 06 - 07), it's the way in which random alien races will be created for a single story arc, and then never used again. I get that the universe is really really big, but it just feels so cheap and pointless. <br /><br /><i>Claremont explicitly links this story to the final Thomas/Adams issue, the previous run on the title he most admired (or, by some accounts, the only previous run he'd read at this point), by having the Z'Nox-defeating "thought beam" from that issue serve as the device which first joins Lilandra's and Xavier's minds.</i><br /><br />I always liked this, as it made it feel like the previous X-Men arc prior to GSXM actually mattered. The first time I read X-Men #94, I had no idea that the previous issues had been reprints, so I was slightly confused that there was no reference to any recent issues.Harry Sewalskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11886168494924203493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-60159901156545114042011-10-19T16:51:47.163-05:002011-10-19T16:51:47.163-05:00@Blam: I highly recommend, if possible, reading th...@Blam: <i>I highly recommend, if possible, reading the original run (from the first WaRP ElfQuest #1-20 — which is all you really "need" to read) in the four Donning/Starblaze collections. </i><br /><br />Good to know, thanks! I'll have to look into those.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-68300686492969509422011-10-13T22:44:33.838-05:002011-10-13T22:44:33.838-05:00Me: I don't know if you've read ElfQuest
...<br>Me: <i>I don't know if you've read </i>ElfQuest<br /><br />Teebore: <i>I have not (it's on the ever-lengthening "to be read" list)</i><br /><br />When you do, I <i>highly</i> recommend, if possible, reading the original run (from the first WaRP <i>ElfQuest</i> #1-20 — which is all you really "need" to read) in the four Donning/Starblaze collections. How easy or cheap they are to come by these days, I don't know, and I'm sympathetic to the fact that the Pinis (and Collen Doran, and apparently others) sued the company in some dispute later on, but I've never seen other reprints of the story reproduce the lush color of those volumes.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-72847169982006731802011-10-13T14:00:48.393-05:002011-10-13T14:00:48.393-05:00@Blam: Cockrum's pencils look really good with...@Blam: <i>Cockrum's pencils look really good with Dan Davis inking.</i><br /><br />They really do. This is easily my favorite art from all of Cockrum's issues in this run.<br /><br /><i>Yeah, I know, it's full of LSH and Star Trek homages, but that's part of the fun, and it's not as if the work is phoned in</i><br /><br />It is indeed tons of fun. And, as you pointed out (I believe) in an earlier post, at the time, the <i>Star Trek</i> references weren't quite as obvious as they are today. <br /><br /><i>I don't know if you've read ElfQuest</i><br /><br />I have not (it's on the ever-lengthening "to be read" list) but I know Claremont references it occasionally, especially in "Kitty's Fairy Tale". <br /><br /><i>Was there ever a reference in some later story that I either forgot or more likely never read to Cyclops and his dad crossing paths in a highly inhabited Marvel cosmos?</i><br /><br />You know, I can't think of one off the top of me head, but I feel like there <i>has</i> to be, which probably means there is, I read it once, and promptly forgot the details. <br /><br />Maybe around the time of the whole Vulcan/Third Summers brother retcon in <i>Deadly Genesis</i>? I'll have to go back and look. <br /><br /><i>There's no question, though, that Marvel benefitted from the likes of Cockrum and Byrne introducing concepts such as the Starjammers and Alpha Flight as work-for-hire when it was basically the only game in town.</i><br /><br />And for all the gripes (legitimate and imagined) you hear all over the place about "comics these days" I really think that has a lot to do with it. <br /><br />You're just not going to see the kinds of great, original, new characters that you did in the 60s/70s/80s popping in a Marvel or DC book as often anymore because there's so many more avenues for creators to feature their creations and still retain full control. <br /><br />(Not that I begrudge them that freedom, of course, it's just kinda sad that great new contributions to the ongoing Marvel and DC tapestries are fewer and father between these days...).Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-62688135041634186092011-10-11T08:24:55.236-05:002011-10-11T08:24:55.236-05:00I'd never made those connections to Star Wars ...<br> I'd never made those connections to <i>Star Wars</i> that you did with the princess and the space pirates, <i>etc</i>. Nice! <br /><br />As for the observation that in today's market Cockrum would keep the Starjammers concept to himself and publish it somewhere else, he sort-of did eventually do that with his creator-owned superteam <i>The Futurians</i>. There's no question, though, that Marvel benefitted from the likes of Cockrum and Byrne introducing concepts such as the Starjammers and Alpha Flight as work-for-hire when it was basically the only game in town.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-60102043800583619012011-10-11T08:19:03.504-05:002011-10-11T08:19:03.504-05:00I'm fairly sure that this is where/when I trie...<br>I'm fairly sure that this is where/when I <i>tried</i> to buy <i>X-Men</i> regularly, although it wasn't always possible.<br /><br />Just a few random thoughts:<br /><br />Cockrum's pencils look really good with Dan Davis inking.<br /><br />I've read this <i>so</i> many times since it came out, but the sheer creativity is still palpable. Yeah, I know, it's full of LSH and <i>Star Trek</i> homages, but that's part of the fun, and it's not as if the work is phoned in; there's plenty of action, plot, characterization, <i>and</i> Easter eggs like catching all the Legionnaire doppelgangers, with Cockum turning in yet more cool costume designs.<br /><br />I don't know if you've read <i>ElfQuest</i>, but Claremont and Byrne will be referencing it slyly in some dialogue down the road, and here I'm always struck by the fact that it's as if Lilandra and Xavier "recognized" each other.<br /><br />Like Jean says on Pg. 17 (of the story, Pg. 30 of the issue): "I've heard of <i>coincidence</i>, but this is <i>ridiculous</i>." Was there ever a reference in some later story that I either forgot or more likely never read to Cyclops and his dad crossing paths in a highly inhabited Marvel cosmos?<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-58161504513119347732011-05-09T10:53:18.034-05:002011-05-09T10:53:18.034-05:00@mortsleam
Only Claremont seems to be able to wri...@mortsleam<br /><br /><i>Only Claremont seems to be able to write good "X-Men in Space" stories</i><br /><br />Although even Claremont is capable of turning in a pedestrian space story occasionally: the first Brood story with Cockrum, shortly before the one with Cockrum, comes to mind. <br /><br /><i>Lobdell's pedestrian scripts and his tendency to set up plots that were never resolved. </i><br /><br />I'm something of a Lobdell apologist, as I thoroughly enjoy his post-crossover "quiet" issues and think he might have done better for himself if he hadn't been writing at the height of the X-Men's "they're so popular editorial needs to meddle constantly" era, but some of his quirks (notably his tendency to just throw unformed plot ideas out there and see what sticks) drive me nuts. <br /><br /><i>Much later, you have Morrison's amazing ideas in Imperial hamstrung by Kordey dashing off unintelligible scribbles in a day, compared to Whedon and Cassady's well thoughyt out and well rendered Unstoppable. </i><br /><br />Agreed on both points.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-57816133590510237572011-05-07T13:07:26.910-05:002011-05-07T13:07:26.910-05:00Only Claremont seems to be able to write good &quo...Only Claremont seems to be able to write good "X-Men in Space" stories, with the finale to the Phoenix saga with Byrne, the Paul Smith Brood stories and even the Jim Lee "Warskrulls" being high-water marks. Not just in space X-Men stories, but in the X-Men as a whole. <br /><br />Also, maybe it's the pairing of Claremont with an artist that can really draw the crazy imagery he describes. As good as "Joe Mads" was, his manga-inspired imagery was too much for Lobdell's pedestrian scripts and his tendency to set up plots that were never resolved. He needed a better writer. <br /><br />Much later, you have Morrison's amazing ideas in Imperial hamstrung by Kordey dashing off unintelligible scribbles in a day, compared to Whedon and Cassady's well thoughyt out and well rendered Unstoppable.<br /><br />But I'm getting ahead of myself.<br /><br />Issue at hand: Super good.<br /><br />"Nangry." Ha.<br /><br />--mortsleamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-77899051916122381832011-05-06T10:13:02.902-05:002011-05-06T10:13:02.902-05:00@Joan: It reminds me of a teacher I had in high sc...@Joan: <i>It reminds me of a teacher I had in high school who would ask us what kind of "wheels" we had. </i><br /><br />Ha! Did he then ask who was going to the sock hop? <br /><br />Out-of-touch adults trying to sound "hip" and "cool" but hilariously missing the mark is one of my favorite things, ever. <br /><br />@Sarah: <i>I could watch gambit read a book and call it a good day</i><br /><br />You and your Gambit love... >shakes head<Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-49023568659791749262011-05-06T09:40:31.377-05:002011-05-06T09:40:31.377-05:00I could watch gambit read a book and call it a goo...I could watch gambit read a book and call it a good daySarah Ahiershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02795455714801965956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-21317558856580071772011-05-05T07:27:03.140-05:002011-05-05T07:27:03.140-05:00Sweet "threads", Wolvie!
It reminds me ...Sweet "threads", Wolvie!<br /><br />It reminds me of a teacher I had in high school who would ask us what kind of "wheels" we had. <br /><br /><br />VW: Pophoe - Ke$ha?Joan Crawfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04513335615114222374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-28985374235777016332011-05-04T17:07:03.784-05:002011-05-04T17:07:03.784-05:00@Sarah: $5 wolverine wouldn't have even bother...@Sarah: <i>$5 wolverine wouldn't have even bothered securing another uniform. He just would have run around all Nangry </i><br /><br />As Matt already mentioned, my understanding is that the Fang costume Wolverine acquires here was intended (I've always heard by Cockrum) to be his new costume, but once Byrne took over, he brought back the old costume as quick as he could. <br /><br />I have yet to find a source on that little anecdote, but I'll probably "officially" mention it in the post for issue #109.<br /><br />@Matt: <i>Of course, that particular story turned out not to have been worth the wait, but the point remains that I had been trained to expect the X-Men to travel off world every few years!</i><br /><br />Very true. For better or worse, "X-Men in Space" have become part of the storytelling engine to the point where we come to expect them every so often, especially for people who started reading after this initial space story and never knew the X-Men without SOME connection to the Shi'ar, outer space, etc. <br /><br />And, while I know Anne and Sarah have a fondness for that story you mentioned, I've never been a big fan of it either (it actually comes to mind whenever I think about "X-Men in Space" stories that aren't very good). <br /><br /><i>Also, I love that issue 104 was "barely a day" earlier than 107. Besides that, 107 continues directly into 108, which pretty much leads directly into 109.</i><br /><br />And there's <i>Iron Fist</i> 15 in there, too, wedged between #108 and #109. <br /><br /><i>I feel like this style of storytelling, where events are densely packed into short periods of time, has fallen out of favor in recent years</i><br /><br />Definitely. I don't know if decompression is entirely to blame (as that tends to draw out stories by its very nature). It might partly be because we see fewer and fewer extended runs by creators; when you have a new writer/artist every 6/12/18 issues, the tendency is for the new guy to shake things up and imply or establish a passage of time between the end of the last creator's run, making the events of each story feel even more spaced out. <br /><br />I dunno what's to blame, but I definitely miss that feeling of "tons of stuff happening quickly". It also helped sell the idea of the time passing slowly in comics. <br /><br /><i>I loved about Byrne's X-Men: The Hidden Years when it started was that the entire first dozen or so issues took place over the span of something like two days!</i><br /><br />I liked that, but I did not love that Byrne couldn't seem to keep his cast out of the Savage Land. As soon as one group left, another showed up! :)Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-911517852229950832011-05-04T13:42:48.061-05:002011-05-04T13:42:48.061-05:00Oh, and speaking of Fang's costume -- didn'...Oh, and speaking of Fang's costume -- didn't Cockrum intend to make it Wolverine's permanent new look? I believe that's why Byrne drew him in that outfit in <i>Iron Fist</i> #15 -- but as soon as Byrne had full artistic control of the X-Men, he (thankfully) returned him to his original look!Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-15059461857379696822011-05-04T13:40:58.010-05:002011-05-04T13:40:58.010-05:00I like "X-Men in Space" stories once in ...I like "X-Men in Space" stories once in a while, but they shouldn't be the norm. Back in the 90's, when I was an avid X-Reader, there came a point where several X-Men (Rogue, Beast, Gambit, and some others) went into space to fight the Phalanx. When the story started, my involuntary response was something like, "finally!" I'd been waiting years for an "X-Men in Space" story without even realizing it!<br /><br />Of course, that particular story turned out not to have been worth the wait, but the point remains that I had been trained to <i>expect</i> the X-Men to travel off world every few years!<br /><br />Also, I love that issue 104 was "barely a day" earlier than 107. Besides that, 107 continues directly into 108, which pretty much leads directly into 109. I figure at most, two days passed from 104 - 109, which were published over the course of <i>ten months</i>! And yet, with the exception of 107-108 which is a 2-parter, each issue is pretty much a standalone adventure.<br /><br />I feel like this style of storytelling, where events are densely packed into short periods of time, has fallen out of favor in recent years, possibly due to the "decompressionist" style of writing, but I'm not sure if that's the only cause. But anyway, Roger Stern used to be really good at the "rapid series of events in a short amount of time" thing, too. And one of the things I loved about Byrne's <i>X-Men: The Hidden Years</i> when it started was that the entire first dozen or so issues took place over the span of something like two days!<br /><br />(By the way, you may have noticed that I love tangents.)<br /><br />Lastly, I absolutely love that splash page you posted. To me, more than pretty much any other grouping, those <i>are</i> the X-Men!Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-90123708430937981342011-05-04T13:30:14.235-05:002011-05-04T13:30:14.235-05:00Man, i gots to see that Orca movie!
Also, if this ...Man, i gots to see that Orca movie!<br />Also, if this comic were written today, $5 wolverine wouldn't have even bothered securing another uniform. He just would have run around all Nangry (naked/angry). Also, he gets his uniform blow off more than any other characterSarah Ahiershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02795455714801965956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-80417657653770444292011-05-04T11:04:35.135-05:002011-05-04T11:04:35.135-05:00@Anne: i think fans just need to calm the eff down...@Anne: <i>i think fans just need to calm the eff down</i><br /><br />Some do. Most are mildly indifferent. For me, I don't mind "X-Men in Space" stories so long as they're good. Just like everything else, there are good ones and bad ones, but I don't believe ANY "X-Men in Space" story is inherently bad, even if it does have to work a little harder to be good. <br /><br /><i>it kind of sucks that Dave Cockrum wanted Starjammers to be their own book and got shot down</i><br /><br />Yeah, it's a somewhat sad example of how the business operated back then. He wanted to do this book on its own, and couldn't, so he worked the characters into a comic he was leaving, and from that point forward, lost what little control he might have had over the characters. <br /><br />Nowadays, he'd just self publish his space pirates book, or take it to Image, or something (which is also why you don't see as many good original characters these days; creators want to maintain control over their truly inspired creations instead of just handing them over to the work-for-hire mill). <br /><br /><i>that Orca movie looks amazing</i><br /><br />I've only seen bits and pieces of it on TV, but I believe it's pretty much what it looks like: <i>Jaws</i> with a killer whale.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-48003454853529296292011-05-04T10:13:02.106-05:002011-05-04T10:13:02.106-05:00yeah- i can get behind the fact that they are stil...yeah- i can get behind the fact that they are still protecting a world that fears and hates them. i think fans just need to calm the eff down<br /><br />it kind of sucks that Dave Cockrum wanted Starjammers to be their own book and got shot down<br /><br />that Orca movie looks amazing (and actually fairly accurate- The Bad Ass Orca!). Also- Richard Harris?! Now i totes need to see itAnne Ahiershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04695186823472404436noreply@blogger.com