tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post416495409409067115..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining X-Men #114Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-82305785103918245322012-12-14T20:24:33.768-06:002012-12-14T20:24:33.768-06:00This was the first issue of X-Men that I ever read...This was the first issue of X-Men that I ever read or purchased. (Yes, I was new to the X-Men just in time for the Dark Phoenix Saga.) It was nice revisiting the issue here. I plan to read all of your other X-Amining X-Men posts.vita64noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-83829704735585801052012-12-07T21:10:56.297-06:002012-12-07T21:10:56.297-06:00Byrne draws his first fastball special and we get ...<i>Byrne draws his first fastball special and we get the cool effect of replacing Wolverine's legs with speed lines.</i><br /><br />Wolverine the Human Rocket!<br /><br />...Come to think of it, that will probably become canon one day.Harry Sewalskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11886168494924203493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-66543740612395456102011-06-23T16:52:04.062-05:002011-06-23T16:52:04.062-05:00@Matt: Maybe he's mellowing in his old age... ...@Matt: <i>Maybe he's mellowing in his old age... but probably not.</i><br /><br />Ha! No, probably not, but it is nice to see him positively acknowledging Claremont in SOME way. <br /><br />Love that quote about nobody dying a cipher, by the way. It's a great example of how Claremont's overall attention to significant details made the stories better.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-12171849250807834262011-06-23T12:17:31.223-05:002011-06-23T12:17:31.223-05:00"...some of the back and forth between Misty,..."...<b>some of the back and forth between Misty, Colleen, Jean and the X-Men eventually starts to stretch my ability to suspend my disbelief too</b>..."<br /><br />And the frustrating part is that it could've been entirely avoided by not having that tiny one-page scene where Jean bumps into Misty at the airport a few issues from now!<br /><br />"<b>You've got Claremont trying to push the boundaries of the form while Byrne does his best to make sure the finished product is still recognizable as a superhero comic book, so that in the end, you get one of the best, most groundbreaking runs in superhero comics.</b>"<br /><br />I definitely agree -- the friction between the creators is what helped to make this the classic that it is today. The quote you posted from Byrne in this review pretty much says just that. I'll again make the comparison between Claremont & Byrne and Lee & Kirby -- both teams had, by most accounts, a lot of creative friction, and both resulted in some of the best comics ever made.<br /><br />Also, I think heck has frozen over, because just today I read a post on Byrne's board from a few days ago in which he gives Claremont some pretty glowing praise:<br /><br />"<i>Shooter summed up Chris' strongest ability as a writer. He said Chris would always make you CARE about the smallest character in a story. No one ever died a cipher, for instance.<br /><br />Recall the first people killed by the demon in the N'Gari story. I just drew a young couple out looking for a Xmas tree. Chris made it their FIRST Xmas tree, as a couple! Brilliant.<br /><br />And, of course, I have often told the story of how Danny Rand walking thru his parents' old brownstone and "seeing" ghostly images of his childhood -- well, that brought a tear to my eye when I read the published book, even tho I'D DRAWN IT!!</i>"<br /><br />Claremont has always had nice things to say about Byrne (at least publicly); it's nice to see Byrne finally returning the favor. Maybe he's mellowing in his old age... but probably not.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-4374767575162893592011-06-23T11:59:30.827-05:002011-06-23T11:59:30.827-05:00@Sarah: clearly wolverine keeps that picture of je...@Sarah: <i>clearly wolverine keeps that picture of jean in Nature's Pocket...</i><br /><br />Ewww...<br /><br />Also, heh! <br /><br />@Matt: <i>This is probably obvious from the context of the rest of the paragraph, but that was supposed to read "more Claremont than Byrne."</i><br /><br />I figured as much, but rest assured, I had intended to give you some good-natured ribbing about it. :) <br /><br />@Mr. Inman: <i>Enjoying your X-Men posts. Followed you over here after reading Jason's posts over at Remarkable.</i><br /><br />Thanks! And thanks for joining us. <br /><br /><i>it would otherwise seem strange to go from one adventure to another without ever really seeing who the characters were as people.</i><br /><br />Definitely. And they help make the fight scenes more enjoyable too, because you feel like you know the characters, and there are stakes involved beyond "will they stop the nefarious scheme of Villain X?".Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-72130048549223080042011-06-23T11:55:37.616-05:002011-06-23T11:55:37.616-05:00@Matt: That's a long time to keep a "new&...@Matt: <i>That's a long time to keep a "new" label on something...</i><br /><br />Ha! I hadn't thought of that before, but you're right, they were "All New" for an awfully long time...<br /><br /><i>the telepaths have probably stopped trying to sense them.</i><br /><br />That was always my assumption, but I guess, maybe Xavier's telepathic rapport is supposed to be a constant, unconscious thing (which would be kinda creepy)? <br /><br /><i>But after the group returns to Westchester and somehow manages never to phone Muir Island (really, Banshee?</i><br /><br />That's the one that always gets me, too. I'm not saying the X-Men need to call Muir Island to say, "hey, we're alive!" since the X-Men don't know people think they're dead, but I find it hard to believe after all that time away Banshee wouldn't have called Moira just to, you know, say "hi"(and some of the back and forth between Misty, Colleen, Jean and the X-Men eventually starts to stretch my ability to suspend my disbelief too). <br /><br /><i>On one hand, I see the point he's trying to make -- especially if your core target audience is young boys -- but on the other hand, I disagree.</i><br /><br />I'm in the same boat: I see his point, but tend to disagree. Heck, one of the things that drew me in to the X-Men were the "quiet" issues, because it made the characters feel real: they weren't just action heroes, they were read like actual people. Sometimes they punched out bad guys, sometimes they just hung out and played baseball. Just because I happened to stumble upon an issue of the later instead of the former doesn't mean I'm never going to pick up an issue again (my very first issues of <i>X-Men</i> were, relatively speaking, "quiet" issues). <br /><br />It definitely seems like there's a running conflict, starting with Byrne's arrival, between what Claremont thought was best for the ongoing narrative of the X-Men (and what he wanted to write, of course) and what some of his collaborators thought was best for the comic as a comic. <br /><br />Byrne felt every comic needed a fight scene, because it might be someone's first and that's what they expect from a superhero comic, whereas Claremont was more concerned with his vision of <i>X-Men</i> as chapters in an ongoing narrative (which meant story beats between the fight scenes) than he was with <i>X-Men</i> as an ongoing collection of self-contined stories (we see this later in his run, when Lee and Harras want to bring the X-Men back to their super-heroic roots while Claremont feels like the characters have evolved beyond that).<br /><br />I really think that push and pull is what results in some of the best stories. One of the reasons the Claremont/Byrne run works so well is that, like any good partnership, it utilizes the best sensibilities of both partners. You've got Claremont trying to push the boundaries of the form while Byrne does his best to make sure the finished product is still recognizable as a superhero comic book, so that in the end, you get one of the best, most groundbreaking runs in superhero comics. <br /><br /><i>Cyclops should've kept that mustache for a while.</i><br /><br />That 'stache was pretty rocking, but it would probably would have looked silly with the visor and skull cap.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-62798474499381939562011-06-22T17:43:13.807-05:002011-06-22T17:43:13.807-05:00Enjoying your X-Men posts. Followed you over here ...Enjoying your X-Men posts. Followed you over here after reading Jason's posts over at Remarkable. <br /><br />I always loved the quiet issues. To me, they always added a sense of realism to the overall story arc because it would otherwise seem strange to go from one adventure to another without ever really seeing who the characters were as people.Chris Inman, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06792847460958013395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-39741735386527851242011-06-22T16:36:36.172-05:002011-06-22T16:36:36.172-05:00"...I'll mention that this was apparently..."...<b>I'll mention that this was apparently more Byrne than Claremont</b>."<br /><br />This is probably obvious from the context of the rest of the paragraph, but that was supposed to read "more Claremont than Byrne."Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-3906944528613472882011-06-22T16:00:09.546-05:002011-06-22T16:00:09.546-05:00clearly wolverine keeps that picture of jean in Na...clearly wolverine keeps that picture of jean in Nature's Pocket...Sarah Ahiershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02795455714801965956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-80165854049894196672011-06-22T16:00:02.748-05:002011-06-22T16:00:02.748-05:00Funny that the X-Men were "All New" and ...Funny that the X-Men were "All New" and "All Different" for 20 issues... which when you take the bi-monthly schedule into account (they didn't go monthly till just two issues ago, I believe), was three years! That's a long time to keep a "new" label on something...<br /><br />I've always really liked the cover to this issue -- and I love that silent panel of Xavier and Jean that you posted. It never ceases to amaze me what a master of body language John Byrne can be. And Claremont -- as wordy as he has a reputation for being -- knows when to shut up and let the art do the talking for him. I generally like Claremont's prose at this vintage, but in this case I feel like that picture gets the point across way better than anyone could've written it.<br /><br />I love the idea of the world thinking the X-Men are dead, so I'm generally willing to overlook the iconsistencies and coincidences that make it hard to swallow -- <i>while they're on the road</i>. In fact, I never even gave much thought to the question of Jean and Xavier not sensing the X-Men. I guess I assumed the Savage Land had something to do with it, and by the time they leave there, the telepaths have probably stopped trying to sense them.<br /><br />But after the group returns to Westchester and somehow manages never to phone Muir Island (really, Banshee?), or learn that Beast is still alive (after all, I'm fairly sure the Avengers must've made the evening news pretty much every night), that's where my willing suspension of disbelief reaches the breaking point. And yet I can even accept that imperfection because of how much I love the reunion scene between Cyclops and Beast. But that said, I do think the whole thing could've been done better if Claremont and Byrne put more thought into it.<br /><br />"...<b>they kick off their Savage Land story with a Claremont/Byrne staple: the quiet "downtime" issue</b>..."<br /><br />Since it wouldn't be a post from me without a "Byrnecdotes", I'll mention that this was apparently more Byrne than Claremont. I remember a while back where Byrne posted that Claremont always liked to insert these "quiet" issues to allow the audience to "catch their breath" following the big epic stories. Byrne, being very much of the "every issue is someone's first" school, thought this was a terrible idea because if the "quiet" issue happened to be the first one somebody read, they'd probably never read the comic again, being under the impression that it was "boring".<br /><br />On one hand, I see the point he's trying to make -- especially if your core target audience is young boys -- but on the other hand, I disagree. Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but I feel like there were a <i>ton</i> of "quiet" issues in the 90's X-Men comics, between both core titles, and I don't think that really ever affected their sales.<br /><br />Oh, lastly -- Cyclops should've kept that mustache for a while.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.com