tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post3000855888448821018..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining Spider-Man #16Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-76659366467560415662016-04-26T05:28:42.305-05:002016-04-26T05:28:42.305-05:00Seriously... I'm no Todd hater, but even Leife...Seriously... I'm no Todd hater, but even Leifeld is out-shining him in the panels above. Just look at the mouth on ol' Juggy.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05850180973989295135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-71771178257763183992016-04-26T02:23:44.200-05:002016-04-26T02:23:44.200-05:00I guess this issue is more or less what you'd ...I guess this issue is more or less what you'd expect from a McFarlane issue of Spider-man. The writing isn't all that deep, so I guess we shouldn't expect anything beyond an issue long fight scene. <br /><br />As for the art...true, it may be more consistent than what you'd get with Liefeld, it still isn't what I would call good. I mean, check out that picture of Juggernaut before his eyes get stabbed...what the hell is happening to his face? That has to be one of the ugliest renderings of Juggernaut I think I have seen. And I'm not even sure what Spider-man is doing in that panel when Boom-Boom is landing the ship. <br /><br />Speaking of that panel where Juggernaut gets his eyes stabbed the reason McFarlane quit the title? He wanted it to be much more graphic, but the editor nixed that, which really pissed off McFarlane. Of course, a really good editor should have mentioned the whole force-field thing as you pointed out, but oh well.<br /><br />I never realized McFarlane left Marvel long before Image started. Granted, Spawn #1 has a cover date of May 1992, so I guess he just spent his time off working on that. wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-2143191422855568342016-04-25T17:23:56.675-05:002016-04-25T17:23:56.675-05:00Ah, yeah, thanks for linking to that Legend. Readi...Ah, yeah, thanks for linking to that Legend. Reading it again, I remember it, but I plum forgot about it when I was writing this post. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-29826189575026700182016-04-25T17:23:22.164-05:002016-04-25T17:23:22.164-05:00As Matt says below, I'm more or less grading t...As Matt says below, I'm more or less grading the art here on a curve, compared to the Liefeld chapters. But I do think McFarlane turns in a properly-imposing Juggernaut in this issue. He seems appropriately bigger than everyone. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-13429211174023261812016-04-25T17:21:40.673-05:002016-04-25T17:21:40.673-05:00I definitely like the idea of Spider-Man as a sort...I definitely like the idea of Spider-Man as a sort of superhero elder statesmen, at least in relation to a group like X-Force. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-5726766956326639252016-04-23T11:07:46.593-05:002016-04-23T11:07:46.593-05:00Thanks for linking this. I was looking for this l...Thanks for linking this. I was looking for this legend as I, too, seemed to recall that the rendering of Juggernaut's eye-impalement was a point of contention between Todd and the editors. This seems to be accepted as the reason why Todd quit. However, his editorial in the letter column of this issue would indicate paternity leave as his reason for taking a break from comics at this time (his wife had just given birth to their first child).Cerebronoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-17959945773984814612016-04-22T13:02:58.822-05:002016-04-22T13:02:58.822-05:00I though the then-popular "Stab his eyes!&quo...I though the then-popular "Stab his eyes!" oath was a dig at Claremont who had said that's how it felt to him watching the X-Men animation. But apparently the oath came earlier.<br /><br />Hilarious unrelated exchange there in the CBLR comments about a person complaining about a location given as "Deep inside Africa", and someone answering that it was in Chad but "Deep inside Chad" wouldn't make it past the Comics Code.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-54699789353342793172016-04-22T12:21:24.714-05:002016-04-22T12:21:24.714-05:00I don't like Todd McFarlane's artwork, but...I don't like Todd McFarlane's artwork, but compared with the Liefeld stuff in the previous chapter, this looks downright beautiful.<br /><br />You note the scene where Shatterstar stabs Juggernaut's eyes (perhaps taking Cable's trademark oath as instruction?), and you note that this is McFarlane's final issue -- and there's actually line to be drawn between those two notes, as discussed here: <a href="http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2014/08/01/comic-book-legends-revealed-482/" rel="nofollow">Comic Book Legends Revealed #482: Todd McFarlane quit Spider-Man over a panel of the Juggernaut getting stabbed in the eye</a>.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-26627458483315037972016-04-22T06:30:19.275-05:002016-04-22T06:30:19.275-05:00If I was truly wrestled to admit it, as the whole ...If I was truly wrestled to admit it, as the whole arc goes I on my part really appreciate the partnership between Black Tom and Juggernaut continuing to be faithful to that portrayed in the early 100's of UNCANNY where Juggernaut unflinchingly jumped after Tom to the sea. Tom's plan may be nonsensical otherwise, but maybe he really just wanted Cain back and the rest is just window dressing to maybe make some bucks on the side.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-45534580227504596792016-04-22T05:33:11.614-05:002016-04-22T05:33:11.614-05:00// It's less a chapter in a story than a scene...<br><i>// It's less a chapter in a story than a scene in a story //</i><br /><br />Really.<br /><br /><i>// The art isn't bad //</i><br /><br />We’ll have to agree to disagree on that. I mean, yeah, I understand that a lot of folks like(d) McFarlane’s style and that he does <i>have</i> a style and that he puts a fair amount of work into his pages, but me, personally, I can’t stand it. The single panel that impressed me is the one of the ground being torn up as Cannonball slams into and ricochets off of Juggernaut, kind-of proving the rule because Juggernaut’s standing there in a long shot and Cannonball isn’t even seen on-panel.<br /><br />I will agree with Bob above that the (very) little bit to like in this issue is how Spidey comes across as the experienced, strategy-minded elder statesman. While I haven’t read enough of McFarlane’s work — a literal handful of <i>Spawn</i> and <i>Spider-Man</i> issues back in the day — to say this about <i>him</i>, I always found it ironic that Erik “Name Withheld” Larsen ended up being a solid writer, even perhaps a better writer than he is an artist.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-8653198150036502382016-04-22T01:15:01.650-05:002016-04-22T01:15:01.650-05:00... I mayhap should be underlining that the only o...... I mayhap should be underlining that the only one of the Black Tom appearances I actually got for the longest time was MTU #150, where Rachel was fretting over Black Tom being a good guy who helped them in her DoFP future.<br /><br />It gets a bit awkward though once you remember UXM #189 and Rachel remembering the WTC towers laying in ruins, "with thousands dead". We obviously never learned the circumstances how and by whom it happened, but Marvel Universe seem to be drawing its own unintentional parallels occasionally so maybe it <i>was</i> Black Tom there and then too. If that counts as "helping" for the mutants of that timeline, then DoFP just got a tiny bit more bleak.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-37842557090922871262016-04-21T22:20:24.079-05:002016-04-21T22:20:24.079-05:00For as (fittingly) lame as this final McFarlane is...For as (fittingly) lame as this final McFarlane issue was, and for as unimpressed as I had been with Leifeld's New Mutants/X-Force up to that point, I really liked the last page or two of this book. McFarlane gave us a Spider-Man who had been rudely reminded of how dangerous Juggernaut was, and Spidey seemed determined to take him down with the help of some very powerful allies. I was genuinely excited to see the co-ordinated, strategic ass kicking he was going to have X-Force lay down on Juggernaut in the next chapter of the crossover. <br /><br />Then the next chapter came out, and the first few pages were so dumb that it put the nail in the coffin of any affection I had for any book with Leifeld's name on it. Bobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-66003012856068891622016-04-21T17:15:21.654-05:002016-04-21T17:15:21.654-05:00Shatterstar is able to slash at and cause some lev...<i>Shatterstar is able to slash at and cause some level of damage to Juggernaut's eyes, which doesn't seem quite consistent with how Juggernaut's power usually works</i><br /><br />Peter David has at this point and concurrently been doing a plenty with Hulk's superfast healing as opposed to total invulnerability. It's like they're appropriating that wholesale here for Juggernaut too (wrongly and totally out of nowhere), cos with his strength and bulk he's like the Hulk a bit and anyway <i>they're</i> the f*cking superstars here and can do what they like.<br /><br /><i>maybe this is, in fact, the perfect end note for McFarlane after all.</i><br /><br />Everything stuck sideways and left with smoky ruins. Sounds about right.<br /><br />Yeah, sorry. Occasionally it's hard to fight back the bitterness about what my beloved Marvel Universe has turned into in so short time. Black Tom, the lovable rogue, who turned into crime because of (willingly) losing a lady to his cousin Sean, who commented approvingly on Spider-Woman's spunk on her taking them on, and who laughingly thanked Cain for the fun birthday present ruckus they had courtesy of Cyttorak gem, apparently is blowing up WTC nowadays.Teemunoreply@blogger.com