tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post2271050637620248254..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining Uncanny X-Men #201Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-33371237254058216122023-10-18T22:00:10.447-05:002023-10-18T22:00:10.447-05:00I'm even later to the party.
Anyway, I did th...I'm even later to the party.<br /><br />Anyway, I did that Captain Crunch puzzle back in the day. It said that he left on a ship. Turns out, it was a spaceship.Bedfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02833301170976646038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-15673576489354619912013-11-01T12:40:47.678-05:002013-11-01T12:40:47.678-05:00Way late to the party, but...
It occurs to me, th...Way late to the party, but...<br /><br />It occurs to me, this issue wouldn't really be so bad taken on its own terms, in a world with no X-Factor and Jean return. Claremont's stated aim with Cyclops was basically, he loved and lost, but managed to find love again and get his impossible fairy tale happy ending. Scott marries Madelyne, realizes he is beginning a new chapter of his life, and retires from superheroics. The End. And that was the status quo from Uncanny #176-198.<br /><br />Scott's departure was to be the first of many send-offs Claremont wanted to give his long-running characters. We would still see them from time to time, but only as occasional guest stars/supporting characters or when called upon to help out in emergencies. Sure enough, it's the latter that draws Cyclops back to active duty in Uncanny #199, so we're actually still sticking to the prescribed narrative.<br /><br />And let's think about how he's used. It's just a cup of coffee, and as the first "return" after an extended absence, Scott's course is actually pretty logical. He's been far removed from the day-to-day activities of the team, in both body and mind. His wife is expecting. He's barely even accustomed to functioning as a civilian, and now he's entering uncharted territory. Then, oh look, a crisis to resolve! That, he can sink his teeth into. That, he's familiar and comfortable with.<br /><br />Cyclops doubts his abilities to hack it as a husband and a father, but knows he's up to the challenge of leading a team of superheroes. He tries to slip right back into those old shoes, but finds they don't fit quite the same way and it's really obvious to everyone around him. He plows gamely on and picks a fight with Storm for leadership of the team. Of course he'll beat her. That's not the point. It has no bearing on her qualifications as a leader. So he's thrown up this ludicrous strawman defense to ensure his position prevails.<br /><br />But shockingly, Cyclops loses. This is confirmation that he didn't actually want the job after all. His heart really does lie with Madelyne and the baby, but he was too stubborn to admit it until it was spelled out in the most extreme way. Once more, The End.<br /><br />Scott's arc from Uncanny #199-201 can best be summed up as "denial." It's a study in a scared, insecure man coming to terms with his new station in life. Presumably, the next time we saw him, he would he much more at ease with domestication (and thus, a lot more sympathetic). Unfortunately, the next team we saw him was X-Factor and it completely derailed the narrative progression Claremont had laid out.<br /><br />So. I'm not sure how much Claremont deviated from his own blueprint for the character's future, even with the publication of X-Factor looming. One could make the argument that he <i>should</i> have changed things up in setting the stage for the new series, but stuck to his guns on principle. Do we know when exactly Claremont learned about the plans for X-Factor? Was it after he'd already brought Cyclops back into circulation, or did he bring Scott back only after Ann Nocenti (infamously) broke the news?<br /><br />I love Leonardi's art during this era. Felt like he lost a few steps around the Genosha intro, but got it back by the time of Spidey 2099.cyke68https://www.blogger.com/profile/16863809928504935104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-76474037212964614722013-08-29T01:11:09.435-05:002013-08-29T01:11:09.435-05:00"I don't think I've every directly co..."I don't think I've every directly connected Rachel becoming Phoenix to Jean Grey waking up before -" It might not be that coincidental. I always suspected that Jean's resurrection was one of the reasons Rachel was written out a few issues later. (Indeed Jean and Rachel have very brief periods of interaction. For instance when Jean takes over the "Phoenix" mantle, Rachel gets put on a bus.) This town this isn't big enough for two Phoenixes apparently.<br /><br />And while Cyclops DOES come across as a douche, I kinda admire what this issue does for Storm. It solidifies her bad-ass cred and shows that she <i>deserves</i> leadership (yes Scott's expense' but still...)Jon Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11783906806644566810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-64661150601758812892013-08-10T06:53:09.447-05:002013-08-10T06:53:09.447-05:00Ok, does Storm have pupils or not? & why are t...Ok, does Storm have pupils or not? & why are they cat-like in this issue?<br /><br />The scene where Storm walks in on Cyclops and Madelyne was totally awkward. Lucky she intruded at the most opportune moment possible. I mean, What if Cyke and Maddie were having make up sex...? :P<br /><br />Also, I like Madelyne so far.Reesenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-68359279586229895462013-07-29T16:59:29.001-05:002013-07-29T16:59:29.001-05:00@Matt: I know it was ret-conned, but the fact tha...@Matt: <i> I know it was ret-conned, but the fact that Claremont's original intention was for Cyclops to lose without any outside influence really bugs me</i><br /><br />Me too. Like I said, objectively, I can let it go, on the grounds that it was a necessary function of the plot, in the same way that a title character is always going to beat a guest star, even if it logically shouldn't go that way. I like to think that at this point, Cyclops, already pegged for <i>X-Factor</i>, is essentially a guest star in this issue. <br /><br />But still. It rankles. <br /><br /><i>However, I don't see why the early issues of X-Factor had to play out as they did anyway.</i><br /><br />Ditto. There's a lot of dumb stuff in that initial premise, but a lot of it didn't <i>have</i> to be dumb. I'm sure that's something we'll discuss when we get there. <br /><br /><i>I never understand how Rogue gets away with dressing in skimpy clothing when she's "off duty". </i><br /><br />Dr. Bitz and I were actually discussing that offline. As illogical as it is, it definitely is (and stays) a character trait for her (which started when JRjr sexed her up in a bikini for issue #185, but at least there, she thought she was alone). Of all the female characters, she's the one who should dress the most modestly, yet she's the one who most often dresses with the opposite of modesty. <br /><br />I suppose that could work as a sort of indicator of her personality (a free spirit who resents the limitations put on her by her powers, or something like that), but it really doesn't, as we know she's genuinely afraid of touching anyone and taking their memories, even at this point in her character development. Which just makes you think, as you say, that she'd probably want at least a little more skin covered... Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-29191952320760850982013-07-29T12:40:08.829-05:002013-07-29T12:40:08.829-05:00I'm a bit late, but I couldn't not comment...I'm a bit late, but I couldn't not comment on this issue. But first:<br /><br />"...<b> this, like Communism, ultimately proves to be nothing more than a red herring</b>."<br /><br />I always applaud a good <i>Clue</i> reference. Actually, I applaud bad ones, too. I love that movie.<br /><br />Also, I love Rick Leonardi's artwork in this issue. He's always a favorite.<br /><br />Anyway... As a huge fan of Cyclops, this issue has bothered me for years. I know it was ret-conned, but the fact that Claremont's original intention was for Cyclops to lose without any outside influence really bugs me. Simply being distracted is not enough to cost Cyclops a fight. We've seen him angsting over Jean or worried about Professor X while fighting Magneto or whoever, with no ill effects. One of the things that makes Cyclops such a great leader is that he able to bark orders and come up with masterful strategies even while engrossed in his own inner conflicts. This is about as far out of character as he could've gotten!<br /><br />So I agree with the assessment that, in order to set the character up for <i>X-Factor</i>, Claremont has chosen to take him down several pegs. I don't necessarily blame him either, though I think he could've found a better way to do it. Cyclops could have had some other falling-out with the X-Men instead. Just the addition of Magneto might've been enough to make him throw up his hands and walk. Or maybe the X-Men could've just sort of voted him out of the school.<br /><br />However, I don't see why the early issues of <i>X-Factor</i> had to play out as they did anyway. Bob Layton's work there is really pretty rough, and a chore to get through. Why did Cyclops have to abandon his wife and child in the first place? I think some interesting drama could have been created by Jean and Madelyne being forced to live and work together. But, what's done is done. I still think they should've left Jean dead and gone with the original plan for X-Factor, having Dazzler fill the token female role. Though personally I would've used Polaris, instead. Her power is even similar to Jean's, especially since early <i>X-Factor</i> Jean was limited to telekinesis only.<br /><br />"<b>The X-Men once again play baseball in their downtime, the third time they've done so</b>..."<br /><br />I never understand how Rogue gets away with dressing in skimpy clothing when she's "off duty". It's not like her powers stop working when she's out of costume! But here and many more times throughout the years, we frequently see her dressed in Daisy Dukes and a tank top, often out in public. Wouldn't she want to cover a little more skin <b>just in case</b> she happens to accidentally bump into somebody??<br /><br />Also, I love that Nightcrawler is playing ball in his costume. It harkens back to the early Cockrum and Byrne days, when he was never seen without that outfit on.<br /><br />"...<b> Cyclops tells Storm that he'll only use "ultra low power" blasts, which seems like something, given what we know of his power, he shouldn't really have any control over.</b>"<br /><br />I was going to talk about the visor here, but I see others have beat me to it. Anyway, for some reason I thought I had read someplace, maybe in OHOTMU or maybe in an issue, that the visor could control the intensity of Cyclops's beams. I could be wrong, though.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-90514967659124419962013-07-26T12:14:21.514-05:002013-07-26T12:14:21.514-05:00@Blam: I guess my reply was too subtle.
Or simply...@Blam: <i>I guess my reply was too subtle.</i><br /><br />Or simply too thickheaded. Probably the latter. :) <br /><br /><i>I haven't read that Jean Grey issue of FF coming up in decades, but I would expect some explanation there as to what triggered her revival ... and what triggered the trigger</i><br /><br />Nor I. I'm excited to read them again just to get refreshed on stuff like that. Especially since I'm fairly certain "Inferno" at least retroactively tweaks by inserting Maddie into the mix. <br /><br />I don't think I've every directly connected Rachel becoming Phoenix to Jean Grey waking up before - whether that's because it's explicitly stated somewhere and I glossed over/forgot it, or because it's left unstated I was too dense to make the connection (definitely a possibility), remains to be seen. We'll find out soon!<br /><br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-34500355333680200302013-07-25T16:57:32.386-05:002013-07-25T16:57:32.386-05:00@Teebore: Cyclops ... will not return to the title...<br>@Teebore: <i>Cyclops ... will not return to the title in question (</i>Uncanny X-Men<i>), until after Claremont has left it</i><br /><br />Ah. I just thought everyone was in both titles for at least a couple of issues when <i>X-Men</i> Vol. II launched. Like I said, I haven't read those issues since they came out; I only remember them superficially — the split teams, Bishop's intro, Omega Red (whose name I almost literally just plucked from the air to my surprise), and those crazy pouches 'n' trenchcoats 'n' individually drawn clumps of pointy hair. Wasn't for me.<br /><br />@Teebore: <i>"Communism was just a red herring" is a line from the movie </i>Clue<i>, one of my favorite and most quotable comedies. It's filled with great little puns and wordplay like that. </i><br /><br />I guess my reply was too subtle.<br /><br />@Teebore: <i>I'm not sure what is supposed to be triggering the blast here</i><br /><br />So you don't think it's Rachel's interactions with the holoempathic crystal? I haven't read that Jean Grey issue of <i>FF</i> coming up in decades, but I would expect some explanation there as to what triggered her revival (the bit o' Phoenix force leaving the moon) and what triggered the trigger (presumably, Rachel's assumption of the Phoenix mantle and the stirrings it causes in the entity)<br /><br />@Teebore: <i>I like your idea that he's able to control the intensity by filtering it through the ruby quartz</i><br /><br />Until re-reading the issue for this blog, I hadn't even remembered this, but there's that Blackbird fitted with the ruby-quartz windshield that magnified Cyclops' optic blasts. I assume his visor worked on the same principle.<br /><br />@Teebore: <i>which still doesn't account for the billiards shooting, as that was done simply by lifting his glasses, sans visor</i><br /><br />I know; believe me, I know. Even worse I think that same issue, if not that same page, was filled with him angsting over his awesome and terrible power.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-81689605029404767772013-07-25T13:10:55.997-05:002013-07-25T13:10:55.997-05:00@Blam: He's on the cover(s) of the "new&q...@Blam: <i>He's on the cover(s) of the "new" adjectiveless X-Men #1 — not just for show, I don't think, as I remember him being part of the whole Blue/Gold thing.... No?</i><br /><br />I chose my word there very careful, on purpose: though Cyclops returns to the X-Men in Adjectiveless <i>X-Men</i> #1, which is of course written by Claremont, he will not return to the title in question (<i>Uncanny X-Men</i>), until after Claremont has left it (halfway through issue #279). <br /><br /><i>I don't have a clue what you're talking about.</i><br /><br />"Communism was just a red herring" is a line from the movie <i>Clue</i>, one of my favorite and most quotable comedies. It's filled with great little puns and wordplay like that. <br /><br /><i>...and definitely </i>triggering<i>, somehow, the revival of Jean Grey in the shuttle on Earth.</i><br /><br />I've always assumed as much as well, simply because we later see similar bursts of Phoenix-related energy in Maddie's origin, but I'm not sure what is supposed to be triggering the blast here. <br /><br />And<i> "She's never heard her power... sing within her before."</i><br /><br />Good one, I completely missed that. <br /><br /><i>there was a psionic element to the headgear that let him control the visor's opening mentally.</i><br /><br />Yeah, I'm pretty sure the diagram in the Handbook suggests that is current visor is controlled mentally - that is, he just has to think about opening the aperture and it does. <br /><br />My understanding is that the visor controls the width/height/focus of the beam, but the intensity remains relatively consistent, as much as that doesn't jibe with depictions like in this issue and elsewhere. But I like your idea that he's able to control the intensity by filtering it through the ruby quartz (which still doesn't account for the billiards shooting, as that was done simply by lifting his glasses, sans visor).<br /><br /><i>It's an almost crazily naive thought, with hindsight, that Kitty might have a career or really an adulthood period.</i><br /><br />That's a really good observation, and it says a lot about both Kitty's character and the general outlook of the X-Men in general at this time. With the exception of Kitty (and the New Mutants, of course) the current X-Men are all adults; whatever they wanted to be when they grew up, they're X-Men now. Whereas for Kitty, she is apparently thinking of being an X-Man as something she is now, and something she may not be someday. <br /><br /><i>I think he (or Leonardi) actually glossed over the moment too quickly, having Kitty get back on the topic of the Scott/Rachel drama in the same panel. </i><br /><br />Good observation (and agreed that Claremont's restraint in not trying to depict the baby's thoughts is for the best). <br /><br /><i>You can't help wanting a more sympathetic push-pull on the page between his X-Men family and his new family with Madelyne, even if that would be rendered moot by his ditching both families an earlier one in the form of </i>X-Factor.<br /><br />Definitely. That's where I think, had he more time, Claremont might have been able to give us more of that (or if <i>X-Factor</i> had launched with a different creative team in the first place, Claremont or otherwise). <br /><br />@Reese: <i>Again, great job, & keep up the good work! </i><br /><br />Thanks! And welcome to the party. Hope you enjoy it. If you decide to go throw with your own X-Men retrospective of some kind, be sure to let me know.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-85740535900071819182013-07-25T13:10:51.955-05:002013-07-25T13:10:51.955-05:00@MOCK!: Bwah-ha-ha!!! Thank you. Thank you very mu...@MOCK!: <i>Bwah-ha-ha!!! Thank you. Thank you very much! </i><br /><br />Thank YOU for laughing. :) <br /><br />I am incapable of thinking of "red herring" independent of that line. <br /><br />@Anonymous: <i>If X-Factor had never existed then I wouldn't have been annoyed for years that no one ever asked why famous mutant Warren Worthington III was bankrolling mutant hunters. </i><br /><br />Yeah, that is but one of several logical problems with the initial idea behind X-Factor. <br /><br />@Pete: <i>On Leonardi: I see Mike Golden as a major influence on his art. What do others think? </i><br /><br />I can see that. There's an...openness, for lack of a better term (sorry, I lack the proper vocabulary to discuss art) to his figures that, now that you mention, does seem reminiscent of Golden. <br /><br />Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-83468481461851308792013-07-23T16:57:53.213-05:002013-07-23T16:57:53.213-05:00Speaking of Jason Powell (which I and just now Ree...<br>Speaking of Jason Powell (which I and just now Reese have done, at least parenthetically)... Doug M. has cool No-Prize explanation in the comments to the post on #201 of Scott's personality changes having to do with psychic blocks installed by Xavier in Scott's mind. <br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-24427358902217935642013-07-23T16:48:35.999-05:002013-07-23T16:48:35.999-05:00Great blog Teebore. I stumbled across this blog, a...Great blog Teebore. I stumbled across this blog, accidentally, one day when I was searching for "Storm v.s. White Queen" pics on Google (as I had just read UXM #151..or 152, can't remember). Interestingly enough, I was going to do Vlogs on UXM starting with #150 (I have #150-544), but now that I see people like you, Space Squid, Jason Powell, etc., do such awesome jobs at analyzing these books I think I might just limit myself to leaving snide comments about the sillier things I notice in the issues :)<br /><br />Again, great job, & keep up the good work!Reesenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-23090087929381657922013-07-21T07:52:35.612-05:002013-07-21T07:52:35.612-05:00Rachel letting Kitty hear the baby's thoughts ...<br>Rachel letting Kitty hear the baby's thoughts is a neat, lovely idea, but while I appreciate Claremont's restraint in not depicting those thoughts in any way I think he (or Leonardi) actually glossed over the moment too quickly, having Kitty get back on the topic of the Scott/Rachel drama in the same panel. <br /><br />How small is that makeshift baseball diamond? Nightcrawler's standing right next to the pitcher's mound.<br /><br />Madelyne has some good points. She calls Scott on him believing he's the only possible man for the job and on not really having any experience with earning a living outside Xavier's walls; plus, there's the whole thing of <i>he's a father now</i>. I certainly wish that at the very least, rather than coming off as absolute, chauvinistic, and distant, we got some indication that he felt renewed dedication to the X-Men so that he could actively work to make the world a better, safer place for his newborn son — who may well turn out to be a mutant, something nobody points out — rather than Scott feeling a filial duty to Xavier, being gravely concerned over Magneto's intentions, and, to put it as charitably as possible, seeming to have cold feet about not just fatherhood but marriage. You can't help wanting a more sympathetic push-pull on the page between his X-Men family and his new family with Madelyne, even if that would be rendered moot by his ditching <i>both</i> families an earlier one in the form of X-Factor.<br /><br />Cyclops' visor shouldn't be pulled off his cowl that easily, just as a matter of mechanics. Storm maybe shouldn't beat Cyclops that easily, too, although he is visibly distracted (in the sense that the thought balloons are visible to us). Claremont seems to be rationalizing, if not soft-pedaling, as much as possible the dictated plot machinations of Scott withdrawing from Madelyne and "losing" his leadership role in the X-Men. It's kind-of ironic that those paths are presented in this issue as pulling him in opposite directions when it will be X-Factor that takes him away from both and that has built-in alternatives to both as well: Jean, the original Madelyne (literally, we'll learn later), and the other X-Factor members, the original X-Men.<br /><br />I didn't remember that Cap'n Crunch "Where's the Cap'n" strip at all, yet oddly enough I kind-of do remember the larger marketing campaign of Cap'n Crunch going missing. The pencils look like Ron Frenz's work in the panel of Peter Parker talking to Jonah Jameson.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-28252964014561117452013-07-21T07:47:21.044-05:002013-07-21T07:47:21.044-05:00It says a lot about your analyses, Teebore, and th...<br>It says a lot about your analyses, Teebore, and the discussions here (as well as the comments on Jason Powell's posts, which I'm still catching up on in bunches) that when I see certain bits now they bring up so much more than is on the page and possibly more than Claremont even intended. <br /><br />Kurt tickling Rachel on Pg. 2 at the time most likely just registered to me as the kind of grace note that Claremont, like Wolfman & Pérez on <i>Titans</i>, gave their characters at rest or play. Now I see echoes of how nervous Kitty was around Nightcrawler when she joined the team, and how by contrast he must be so pleased not to have that effect on Rachel, who in turn is naturally thrilled to be reunited with (versions at least) of the X-Men who helped raise her — thrilled, indeed, just at the very thought of having a happy moment (when she isn't busy angsting over the fact that this <i>isn't</i> her own past, granted, and over the future that it may yet become). At the same time, I should add, I find the quintessentially Claremontian dialogue around that scene much more eye-rolling in its preciousness than I likely did at 15 when the issue came out; the great lettering from Orz, as you point out Teebore, helps save it. <br /><br />There's much in Wolverine's admiration of Kitty's fastball — even if I don't buy that Peter would whiff on it — and Nightcrawler's comment, "I thought you wanted to be a dancer," to which Kitty replies, "Who says I can't do both?" It's an almost crazily naive thought, with hindsight, that Kitty might have a career or really an adulthood period.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-83295763415994302532013-07-21T07:45:20.520-05:002013-07-21T07:45:20.520-05:00In a continuation of the lamest subplot ever, Stor...<br><i>In a continuation of the lamest subplot ever, Storm mentions that Kitty's ophthalmology appointment has been scheduled.</i><br /><br />LOL. It's funny 'cause it's... not actually funny.<br /><br /><i>Rachel thinks, prays that she can repair the holoempathic crystal.</i><br /><br /><i>And</i> "She's never heard her power... sing within her before."<br /><br /><i>Cyclops tells Storm that he'll only use "ultra low power" blasts, which seems like something, given what we know of his power, he shouldn't really have any control over.</i><br /><br />Yet it's something that he <i>has</i> to have control over, given that we've seen him using his optic blasts to play billiards without vaporizing the balls or knocking them clean through the wall. I just always figured that something about the visor, in addition to the width of the aperture, let him control the intensity of his beams, and that unless he had controls in the palms of his gloves like Ray Palmer (as I thought I remembered reading at some point) there was a psionic element to the headgear that let him control the visor's opening mentally. We don't ever (or at least don't usually; to repeat, you've read more than I do) see the pane of ruby quartz retreat, window-like, into the visor, equivalent to Scott lifting up his glasses; it's my assumption that Scott is concentrating to get a beam <i>through</i> the ruby quartz. And that suggests that the harder he concentrates the more powerful the beam he can send through. How the control is achieved when he <i>is</i> only wearing his shades, as during the pool-table trick in the D'Spayre issue, is another matter, if only because we're told that the visor allows for so much more finesse.<br /><br /><i>as a result, those ideas remain little more than kernels</i><br /><br />Which is such a shame, if not at all surprising given the constraints of the day — and perennially of shared-world, work-for-hire superhero sagas in general. Like I said above, I wanted more of what you say is suggested here and what I frankly barely see suggested — particularly as regards the X-Men as being the only thing Cyclops is or perhaps ever could be good at — not that I can really blame Claremont (for a variety of reasons).<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-18121845530740727822013-07-21T07:43:14.937-05:002013-07-21T07:43:14.937-05:00[Cyclops] won't return to the X-Men until afte...<br><i>[Cyclops] won't return to the X-Men until after Claremont has left the title</i><br /><br />He's on the cover(s) of the "new" adjectiveless <i>X-Men</i> #1 — not just for show, I don't think, as I remember him being part of the whole Blue/Gold thing. That's <i>right</i> before Claremont leaves, yeah, and I have no familiarity with what was happening in the X-Men titles between <i>Inferno</i> circa 1989 and the first half-dozen or so issues of the new series in late 1991, and I haven't read them since they were published, but still. No? You certainly have more X-Men history in your brain than I do.<br /><br /><i>this, like Communism, ultimately proves to be nothing more than a red herring</i><br /><br />I don't have a clue what you're talking about.<br /><br /><i>a beam of energy, originating from the location of Jean Grey's death, heading towards Earth. It's never been entirely clear what this burst of energy is meant to represent</i><br /><br />My recollection upon reading this scene again was that at the time I took it to be an event possibly triggered by Rachel's embrace of the Phoenix force (although, like you suggest in noting that it's later retconned/specified to have happened earlier, one would suspect that would occur when she first absorbed the energy/essence in the crystal in #199) and definitely <i>triggering</i>, somehow, the revival of Jean Grey in the shuttle on Earth.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-13863945267227698362013-07-21T07:39:08.883-05:002013-07-21T07:39:08.883-05:00I'm curious as I search my memory what exactly...<br>I'm curious as I search my memory what exactly got me to pick up #201 after I resolved to drop <i>X-Men</i> with #200. <br /><br />Was it the cover's promise that Cyclops might be back? Or was it by contrast a curiosity over how he would be leaving the team "for good" as <i>X-Factor</i> launched? I know I got the <i>Amazing Heroes</i> issue featuring the lowdown on <i>X-Factor</i> and the return of Jean Grey, but don't recall when it came out in relation to this issue. <br /><br />Was it just the art? I liked Rick Leonardi's Spider-Man, and I've made it clear here that I <i>didn't</i> like JR Jr. & Dan Green, although looking at this issue for the first time in decades I can't say that Whilce Portacio's inks are too appealing over Leonardi's pencils. The figures and the layout are nice — gorgeous at times, in fact; the details, though, faces especially, leave (to my eyes) more than a little to be desired.<br /><br />Maybe it was just a desire to have a more appropriate farewell than #200, which sort-of cemented in place the series that <i>X-Men</i> had become, an <i>X-Men</i> that no longer felt like "my" <i>X-Men</i> — and one that I find more intriguing now, in hindsight and with detachment, than I did at the time, preferring the John Byrne and Dave Cockrum and Paul Smith eras.<br /><br />On to the issue itself, rather than my issues about it...<br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-4935696863555985662013-07-19T13:40:04.009-05:002013-07-19T13:40:04.009-05:00Agreed on the "X-Factor bad for X-Men" a...Agreed on the "X-Factor bad for X-Men" argument.<br />On Leonardi: I see Mike Golden as a major influence on his art. What do others think?Petenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-86440324819426705022013-07-19T12:07:05.783-05:002013-07-19T12:07:05.783-05:00If X-Factor had never existed then I wouldn't ...If X-Factor had never existed then I wouldn't have been annoyed for years that no one ever asked why famous mutant Warren Worthington III was bankrolling mutant hunters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-87925888162527173612013-07-18T22:30:37.453-05:002013-07-18T22:30:37.453-05:00this, like Communism, ultimately proves to be noth...<b>this, like Communism, ultimately proves to be nothing more than a red herring</b><br /><br /><br />Bwah-ha-ha!!! Thank you. Thank you very much!MOCK!https://www.blogger.com/profile/02854497329647596811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-39352378242487809042013-07-18T17:09:14.928-05:002013-07-18T17:09:14.928-05:00@Jeff: Claremont definitely seems like he's po...@Jeff: <i>Claremont definitely seems like he's poisoning the well for Cyclops. He's now a bad husband and a lame leader. All yours, X-Factor! </i><br /><br />Definitely. Though I tend to think he's doing it only after catching wind of how Cyclops was going to be portrayed in <i>X-Factor</i>, and even then he's doing it with an odd mix of reluctance and "stick it to the <i>X-Factor</i> guys"-ness. <br /><br /><i>I never realized how meta that crossover was until I read about the backstage stuff going on at the time.</i><br /><br />Yeah, I read "Inferno" start to finish several times through the years before I ever encountered any of the backstage stuff that made the whole thing so much more meta. <br /><br /><i>Also, as a St. Louisan, I implore you not to taint your reviews by mentioning the '85 World Series again.</i><br /><br />As a Minnesotan, where our last baseball title came in 1991 (heck, that was the last title from any of the four major pro sports, though our WNBA franchise is pretty good these days...), you won't get much sympathy from me. ;)<br /><br />@Dobson: <i>Maybe it's Portacio's influence, but this is about the most manga-influenced look we'll see on this book until that up-and-comer from Alpha Flight and Punisher: War Journal takes over for an arc in a few years.</i><br /><br />Good point. I definitely think its Portacio's influence, aided by Leonardi's generally more cartoony style. <br /><br /><i>And it was the worst the comic had been since Stan Lee was writing it. </i><br /><br />Good point. And least the Stan Lee stuff had the novelty of lots of significant firsts to buoy it up. In fact, I bet a case could be made that Portacio's stint as writer was the worst on the book up through, what, Austen, at least?<br /><br /><i>Maybe it wasn't mentioned, but I seem to remember Storm having a subconscious link to her powers for the next 20 or so issues.</i><br /><br />I don't recall that offhand, but I'll keep an eye out for it moving forward. <br /><br />@Mela: <i>We eventually got some good out of it, but I can't help but wonder how X-Men as a franchise would've been different if X-Factor never happened.</i> <br /><br />It's a good question. I really enjoy <i>X-Factor</i>, at least once Simonson and then the other Simonson comes aboard, and it gets especially soapy (but I have a fondness for soap opera). But it definitely falters near the end, and rips up the franchise almost immediately once it starts. <br /><br />@Ian: <i> I've also realized more and more as time goes on that the original X-Men are....well....lame.</i><br /><br />After encountering them mainly through <i>X-Factor</i>, then going back and reading the Silver Age, I definitely realized that whatever affection I had for that team (including the stuff you specifically mentioned), mainly came from <i>X-Factor</i>.<br /><br /><i>I see Jean's death and resurrection as nothing more than a bump in the road of her life, since she had been resurrected longer than I was alive.</i><br /><br />I'll save more of my larger thoughts regarding the return of Jean for post in two weeks, when I cover the issues featuring her return, but suffice to say, I'm ultimately more or less in the same place you are about it.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-42790984373889154302013-07-18T15:57:37.510-05:002013-07-18T15:57:37.510-05:00As for Jean coming back to life...I got into X-Men...As for Jean coming back to life...I got into X-Men around '92 when I was 5 and the cartoon was out. Jean was on the team then, and to me this grouping of characters WAS the X-Men for me. I see Jean's death and resurrection as nothing more than a bump in the road of her life, since she had been resurrected longer than I was alive.<br /><br />But Claremont created some of his best stories dealing with Jean and the Phoenix and her death. Back then death in comic books meant something, and I can't imagine how shocking it was. Issue #175 was particularly powerful - Scott met Madelyne, decided to marry her, and he said goodbye to Jean once and for all, putting to rest a terrible part of everyone's lives. It seems ridiculous to me now knowing Madelyne's story that she goes from average demure girl with a husband and a baby to being an evil clone with crazy powers created by Mr. Sinister who's trying to bring Hell on Earth. And once again, a Jean analog goes through another weird transformation granting her incredible powers......<br /><br />As for Cyclops, I'm surprised he's not more fucked up than he is (Plane crash, coma, orphanage, parents and brother are dead, uncontrollable force beams from eyes, brother's alive, dad's alive, girlfriend becomes a God, girlfriend dies, and Mr. Sinister has been manipulating events in his life from childhood). The dude just can't catch a break. It's amazing that his heel turn didn't happen until 201 issues into the series he was an original member of.Ian Millerhttp://universex259.deviantart.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-122997243904689972013-07-18T15:49:41.265-05:002013-07-18T15:49:41.265-05:00Man, this post brings back memories. I must've...Man, this post brings back memories. I must've bought this issue around 1999 or 2000 when I was 13/14, mainly because of the Cyclops/Storm duel. But as I got older I became a fan of X-Factor and X-Force, and the seeds for those series were sewn in this particular issue (No X-Factor if Cyclops didn't lose, no X-Force without Cable [Although Cable was already in the comics while baby Nathan was in the present, but still]). For some reason my favorite era for years was the mid-late 80's, and this issue also sets the status quo for that team - Professor X is gone, no original members left, and with their distrust of Magneto they're pretty much all on their own for the first time.<br /><br />I also agree with Mela about the repercussions of X-Factor. I've always had a soft spot for the original X-Men (Especially Cyclops and Angel), but to me X-Factor always seemed a bit superfluous. The concept of "mutant hunters" was pretty weak, and the entire thing just seemed like a poor excuse of trying to recapture the magic of the early issues of Uncanny. I've also realized more and more as time goes on that the original X-Men are....well....lame. My favorite aspects of the series were Angel's transformation and Iceman's loss of control of his powers, but these were only done to make them more interesting (Claremont specifically said that he disliked using Angel in X-Men because all he was useful for was flying and catching people who fell). Claremont could've used all the original characters in his run, but when they did appear he only used them sporadically. They just didn't hold up to the all-new team.Ian Millerhttp://universex259.deviantart.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-75952938955396721912013-07-18T11:53:56.949-05:002013-07-18T11:53:56.949-05:00Claremont definitely seems like he's poisoning...<i>Claremont definitely seems like he's poisoning the well for Cyclops. He's now a bad husband and a lame leader. All yours, X-Factor!</i><br /><br />I got that impression, too. I like to think that Claremont saw the script Layton wrote where Maddie was written as an OOC shrew and had an "Oh, yeah?" moment. <br /><br />The more I look at it, the more I see how much damage the mere existence of X-Factor did to the franchise: It turned one of the founders into a cad, it turned another into a punchline about comic book deaths, it took a background player & made her (and her child) unnecessarily convoluted just to justify her existence in the first place, and it weakened what was the story that put the series on the map by negating its emotional ending. We eventually got some good out of it, but I can't help but wonder how X-Men as a franchise would've been different if X-Factor never happened.Melahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05539894845356203447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-72539163311196782982013-07-18T00:07:49.269-05:002013-07-18T00:07:49.269-05:00Maybe it's Portacio's influence, but this ...Maybe it's Portacio's influence, but this is about the most manga-influenced look we'll see on this book until that up-and-comer from Alpha Flight and Punisher: War Journal takes over for an arc in a few years. I kind of like it, too (unlike most of Portacio's work on X-men books). Don't forget, he's not just an artist: he wrote the books for about a year or two, too. And it was the worst the comic had been since Stan Lee was writing it. I kind of like this issue, (because I hate Cyclops,) but also because it's kind of a nice breather for the team, knowing they're about to go through a series of ringers. As a Nightcrawler fan, it kind of sucks to see him stepping aside without even a conversation about leadership, but again, with hindsight I know things are about to get much worse. <br /><br />Maybe it wasn't mentioned, but I seem to remember Storm having a subconscious link to her powers for the next 20 or so issues. I don't think it led to her actually being fixed, but I don't think it was just an idle red herring, either. I might be totally wrong, though.<br /><br />Also I kind of like the "anyone can win a fight" kind of mentality that issues like this have when combined with something like #175, in which Cyclops punked out the whole team.<br /><br />And Jeff, we Cardinals don't need to worry about losing a world series 28 years ago. After all, we've won even more titles since, unlike basically all of our rivals.Dobsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08884152078310514684noreply@blogger.com