tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post1400348008693693494..comments2024-03-22T04:20:11.870-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining X-Men #109Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-22670553793108863432018-12-10T11:58:38.940-06:002018-12-10T11:58:38.940-06:00X-Men Epic Collection Vol. 5 (which came out earli...X-Men Epic Collection Vol. 5 (which came out earlier this year) contains the Iron Fist issue between issues 108 and 109. It also includes a Marvel Team-Up issue featuring the X-men that takes place between panels of issue 102 before they leave for Ireland ... not sure if you've ever covered that issue.Jeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-54527318532152076242011-10-13T22:45:58.189-05:002011-10-13T22:45:58.189-05:00Byrne has long been one of the most frustrating an...<br>Byrne has long been one of the most frustrating and polarizing figures in (mainstream US) comics — in terms of both his creative work and his persona, not unlike Shooter. On a personal level, I've experienced thoughtfulness from him more than once but also seen/heard him spout some things that are less than flattering. His art, writing, and general approach to the business have also pulled me in both directions.<br /><br />When <i>Alpha Flight</i> #17 came out there had already been talk of Byrne's art declining. Fans said that he put in less effort, was drawing more sketchily, inking more sloppily, and so forth. Byrne countered by saying that his art style was evolving as all artists' do, and while I don't recall him specifically arguing that as he went on he found that less was more I <i>do</i> remember him defending his practice (on <i>Fantastic Four</i> particularly) of only laying out breakdowns lightly when he was going to ink the work himself (keeping things spontaneous and saving time, he said, but still turning in a professional finished product, which is why he merited full payment for pencils and inks).<br /><br />It's entirely possible that you <i>do</i> like Byrne's art more when it's inked by others — and not just because of the style of that particular inker, although I'm partial to some over others. Byrne (who's not alone in doing so) pencils differently depending on whether he or someone else is inking, even differently depending on who in particular is doing the inking. Penciler/inker tandems also develop a kind-of shorthand over time, as Byrne or Austin (or both) memorably pointed out in an <i>X-Men Companion</i> interview that I recall in which, speaking a few years after their partnership's heyday, Austin no longer remembered what some little squiggle of Byrne's was supposed to mean, but he knew that he <i>used</i> to know how to interpret it.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-45992724551575773822011-10-13T09:07:24.730-05:002011-10-13T09:07:24.730-05:00@Matt: It was Alpha Flight #17, complete with an h...@Matt: <i>It was Alpha Flight #17, complete with an homage by Byrne to Cockrum's original cover.<br /></i><br /><br />Huh. I guess I'll chalk that one up to faulty memory. I remember reading Byrne's <i>Alpha Flight</i> run, but have no recollection of that issue. <br /><br /><i>I liked Byrne's work on X-Men: The Hidden Years, but I think maybe that means I just like Tom Palmer...</i><br /><br />Ha! I liked the art on <i>Hidden Years</i>, but found Byrne's stories to be a bit too decompressed and Savage Land-obsessed.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-38581052184370285512011-10-12T14:36:23.250-05:002011-10-12T14:36:23.250-05:00"Do you recall what issue that was?"
It..."<b>Do you recall what issue that was?</b>"<br /><br />It was <i>Alpha Flight</i> #17, complete with an homage by Byrne to Cockrum's original cover.<br /><br />I've never read it, but I saw it while flipping through the <i>Alpha Flight Classic</i> vol. 2 trade that I just picked up recently, so I'll get to it eventually.<br /><br />I liked Byrne's work on <i>X-Men: The Hidden Years</i>, but I think maybe that means I just like Tom Palmer...Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-11120066983396318482011-10-12T13:23:58.462-05:002011-10-12T13:23:58.462-05:00@Blam: the scene missing from the previous issue o...@Blam: <i>the scene missing from the previous issue of the X-Men actually leaving Shi'ar space. </i><br /><br />I remain very appreciative of the fact that Claremont found a way to work that in despite the jampacked #108; it really is a necessary transition and brings closure to the whole "space arc" that had been running for months at that point. <br /><br /><i>For some reason I never thought of this as Canada invading US's sovereign territory before; really, though, that's what's happening.</i><br /><br />Yeah, the next Alpha Flight story in #120-121 makes that more clear (especially in the <i>Classic X-Men</i> version) but hear it really does come off more like a classic superhero feud, even though its made clear Weapon Alpha is working for the Canadian government. <br /><br /><i>About half of this issue was appropriated for a retelling in an issue of Alpha Flight that was fairly infamous at the time for juxtaposing Byrne's slightly older work (as inked by Austin) and his contemporary efforts in a light not exactly flattering to his would-be evolution as an artist.</i><br /><br />Do you recall what issue that was? I (thought I) read all of Byrne's <i>Alpha Flight</i>, but I don't remember that issue. <br /><br /><i>there were periods post-X-Men when I thought he turned it some good stuff, not just on Fantastic Four with favorable inking but later on Namor.</i><br /><br />I haven't read alot of it, but I've also enjoyed what I've seen of his <i>Namor</i> work. <br /><br />And of course, there's that semi-infamous Byrne quote about how people who say they liked his art because of his attention to detail are people who really liked Terry Austin.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-89101043379490997382011-10-11T09:01:23.816-05:002011-10-11T09:01:23.816-05:00This is one of my all-time favoritest comic books ...<br>This is one of my all-time favoritest comic books ever. As often has to be done when considering serial works prepared on deadline for mass consumption, "genre" or otherwise, I know that its excellence is qualified to some extent by not just the production limitations but certain conventions of the medium and the period. But Claremont's thick prose and the disposable newsprint on which the Byrne / Austin / Yanchus artwork was delivered are both part of the artifact's charm.<br /><br />I love Byrne's interior pencils and that Cockrum & Austin cover. I love Weapon Alpha's costume. I love his mostly unspoken backstory with Wolverine and how it set up so many future storylines not just in actual fact down the road but at the very moment in our heads (those of us who read it in 1977, anyway). I love the scenes of the heroes returning home, as the title says, and the various character bits noted by our guide Teebore as well as the other commenters; so much of Wolverine's character and the way he related to his teammates was established by that talk about "sneakin' up close enough to a skittish doe" – jotted down in my notes long before I read this post.<br /><br />Other brief thoughts:<br /><br />We get not just lots of great bits at the mansion but the the scene missing from the previous issue of the X-Men actually leaving Shi'ar space. <br /><br />I did get a chuckle out of the line "My battle suit is the <i>ultimate</i> product of <i>Canadian technology</i>..." <br /><br />For some reason I never thought of this as Canada invading US's sovereign territory before; really, though, that's what's happening.<br /><br />About half of this issue was appropriated for a retelling in an issue of <i>Alpha Flight</i> that was fairly infamous at the time for juxtaposing Byrne's slightly older work (as inked by Austin) and his contemporary efforts in a light not exactly flattering to his would-be evolution as an artist. To many it sure looked like he was coasting or spreading himself thin at times by not rendering backgrounds, varying his line widths, or spotting blacks the way he once did. I grew pretty disappointed with his work on <i>Alpha Flight</i> myself, but there were periods post-<i>X-Men</i> when I thought he turned it some good stuff, not just on <i>Fantastic Four</i> with favorable inking but later on <i>Namor</i>.<br /><br />I'm really sorry that I didn't get to join in on the conversation about this issue when the post went up.<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-28017859397515658562011-05-24T11:52:17.001-05:002011-05-24T11:52:17.001-05:00@Sarah: man, look at creeper chuck there, watching...@Sarah: <i>man, look at creeper chuck there, watching Moira and Banshee make out. CREEPER!</i><br /><br />Yeah, there's just something about Chuck and romance that creeps me out. <br /><br /><i>Finally, wolverine's claws through the mask is totally badass!</i><br /><br />I've always thought the whole "pop the middle claw" thing was pretty badass, in its way, but under the mask just made me chuckle.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-46399261605192645522011-05-23T17:54:53.085-05:002011-05-23T17:54:53.085-05:00man, look at creeper chuck there, watching Moira a...man, look at creeper chuck there, watching Moira and Banshee make out. CREEPER!<br />Also, i totes forgot about Storm's plants in her room. Weird.<br />Finally, wolverine's claws through the mask is totally badass!Sarah Ahiershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02795455714801965956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-6950896319058004322011-05-23T16:33:07.468-05:002011-05-23T16:33:07.468-05:00@Matt: Personally, I can't buy that the X-Men ...@Matt: <i>Personally, I can't buy that the X-Men came home from outer space then attended a party at Jean's house before returning to Westchester.</i><br /><br />Yeah, me neither. I've just been going off the <i>Marvel Index</i> chronology, and they place it first. I suppose no matter what, it doesn't fit quite right. <br /><br /><i>if you take a good look at that issue of Iron Fist, it's pretty obvious that Cockrum did indeed do as Byrne says </i><br /><br />Absolutely. The figures are definitely Byrne, the faces...not so much. I'd noticed it, but never knew editorial had gotten the faces redrawn. Crazy! <br /><br /><i>The Wolverine of the 70's had such great dialogue... </i><br /><br />He really did. I think he lost it once he became "too cool" for it. <br /><br /><i>I don't know why, but I just really like it. Byrne sells the body language quite nicely.</i><br /><br />He really does, and that's something I should have made more a point of: we usually equate action with the artist and character moments with the writer, but the success of the characterization in this run has as much to do with Byrne's skill at drawing body language as it does Claremont's dialogue. <br /><br />I also really like that Nightcrawler/Cyclops scene, especially the follow-up where Cyclops corrects himself and calls Banshee "Sean" while turning down his picnic invitation. <br /><br /><i>That never struck me as odd until fairly recently for some reason.</i><br /><br />Yeah, I suppose he doesn't seem to have too many pockets in that costume. <br /><br /><i>one of my favorite things about Byrne's time on this book is the 1970's fashions he dressed everyone in.</i><br /><br />It's definitely nice to see the X-Men dressed more in the style of the times, as opposed to when Kirby would send them out to a beatnik coffee house dressed in full suits (though that certainly had its own charm, too).<br /><br /><i>I read someplace that Hudson chose the name Vindicator because he felt he needed to "vindicate" himself for accidentally blasting Moira.</i><br /><br />I remember reading that too, now that you mention it. It probably was one of the handbooks, but I can't say for sure. <br /><br />And Claremont does love his random airplane/aviation references...<br /><br />@Dr. Bitz: <i>Was there a difference between the 30 cent and 35 cent versions?</i><br /><br />Not to my knowledge, just a matter of distribution, I think (so you got hosed if you just happened to live in the wrong part of the country). <br /><br />I could be wrong about this (and I'm too lazy to look it up right now), but I think that, back in the day, whenever Marvel or DC knew they'd need to increase prices soon, they'll roll it out slowly and incrementally, to either gauge the reaction (make sure readers didn't notice/complain too much) or just hope to sneak it past people. So now there are random issues with two different prices. <br /><br />(And of course, it wouldn't be long before they just said "screw it" and raised prices whenever/however they felt like it. But for awhile, the comic companies were really worried about pissing readers off with price hikes). <br /><br /><br /><i>Boo respect...make with the funny.</i><br /><br />Weapon Alpha claims his suit is the ultimate product of Canadian technology...<br /><br />...so his suit runs on maple syrup? <br /><br />...so his suit can't function in warm weather? <br /><br />...so at least when it falls apart and Wolverine guts him, we know he's got health insurance.<br /><br />Feel free to add your own Canadian stereotype jokes. :) <br /><br /><i>Also, I like how Banshee and Moira totally make out in front of Professor X. </i><br /><br />It's awesome. The best part is that the X-Men pretty much don't know about Xavier and Moira at this point, so it's pretty much just Moira not caring about being terribly insensitive.Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-36605261154913113272011-05-20T17:23:23.851-05:002011-05-20T17:23:23.851-05:00Was there a difference between the 30 cent and 35 ...Was there a difference between the 30 cent and 35 cent versions?<br /><br />"Weapon Alpha claims his suit is the ultimate product of Canadian technology...I'll leave that one alone out of respect to our Canadian readers."<br /><br />Boo respect...make with the funny.<br /><br />Also, I like how Banshee and Moira totally make out in front of Professor X.Dr. Bitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13568570859981368717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-85808682823441006362011-05-20T13:05:39.183-05:002011-05-20T13:05:39.183-05:00Dang, all that and I still forgot something -- I&#...Dang, all that and I <i>still</i> forgot something -- I've seen Byrne mention his changing of Vindicator's name to Guardian before, with the "Canada has nothing to vindicate" statement. But I also know I read someplace that Hudson chose the name Vindicator because he felt he needed to "vindicate" himself for accidentally blasting Moira. I just don't know where I read it! It may have been a Marvel handbook or something. Wherever it was, I'm assuming it was a ret-con on someone's part to explain the odd name choice (as Byrne has often lamented, Claremont loved to randomly name things after airplanes for no apparent reason).Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-44653758677803228572011-05-20T13:02:02.953-05:002011-05-20T13:02:02.953-05:00Wow -- so, so much to cover. I'm glad you inc...Wow -- so, so much to cover. I'm glad you included <i>Iron Fist</i> 15 as part of this. Personally, I can't buy that the X-Men came home from outer space then attended a party at Jean's house before returning to Westchester. I just keep IF 15 after UXM 109 in my reading order, Wolverine's costume discrepancy be darned.<br /><br />On his website, Byrne has mentioned that Jim Shooter (or someone in editorial anyway) had Dave Cockrum redraw all of Byrne's X-Men faces in IF 15. This seems to make little sense since Byrne would become the regular artist on <i>X-Men</i> a month later, but if you take a good look at that issue of <i>Iron Fist</i>, it's pretty obvious that Cockrum did indeed do as Byrne says (just look at Nightcrawler's face in the panel you posted!).<br /><br />I agree on Wolverine's "deer-stalking" character moment. It really sticks with you. And I love that he refers to the X-Men as a "turkey outfit." The Wolverine of the 70's had such great dialogue... it's one thing I think was lost as Claremont "softened" the character over the years.<br /><br />I also like the conversation between Cyclops and Nightcrawler, particularly the part where Nightcrawler has to remind Cyclops that he has a real name. And I've always loved that bit where, as they talk, you see Jean outside the window manifesting her Phoenix powers for her parents. I don't know why, but I just really like it. Byrne sells the body language quite nicely.<br /><br />Wolverine apparently carries that picture of Jean around at all times, even when in costume, because he has it with him when the X-Men are stranded in the Savage Land a few issues from now. That never struck me as odd until fairly recently for some reason.<br /><br />Lastly, I agree about Cyclops's turtleneck -- and Colossus's happening sweater vest. In fact, one of my favorite things about Byrne's time on this book is the 1970's fashions he dressed everyone in. His Cyclops loves to wear turtlenecks, and everyone owns a pair of bell bottoms! I've also always loved the giant shades he gave to Cyclops. Byrne's uncostumed Scott Summers is pretty much the definitive version of the character as far as I'm concerned.<br /><br />When Alan Davis was on the X-titles in the late 90's, I distinctly remember a scene where he drew Cyclops, out of costume, sporting the giant Byrne shades and the exact same hairstyle Byrne gave him in the 70's. It looked totally out of place in 1998 or whatever, but I loved it anyway!<br /><br />Altogether, this is one of my very favorite issues from the Byrne/Claremont run, and it's only their second one! But I personally feel that the two of them together could do no wrong in the 70's, as seen here, in <i>Iron Fist</i>, and in <i>Marvel Team-Up</i>.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.com