tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post1368051355588063041..comments2024-03-28T10:18:00.370-05:00Comments on Gentlemen of Leisure: X-amining Excalibur #24Austin Gortonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-76889458365924511222015-06-22T15:58:25.743-05:002015-06-22T15:58:25.743-05:00The end of "The Cross-Time Caper" brings...The end of "The Cross-Time Caper" brings with it mixed blessings. One the one hand: it's over. On the other hand: The artwork for the next several issues is atrocious.<br /><br />Regarding Kitty, Sat-yr-9, and their cake -- <a href="http://www.alandavis-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=59" rel="nofollow">Per Alan Davis</a>:<br /><br /><b>"...although I knew Chris had some plan for Sat Yr 9 to corrupt Kitty and that the various Cross time versions of Saturnyne were attracted to Kitty, I had no idea what, if any, the goal of this relationship was to be. I just played it as a lesbian affair. Kitty the innocent victim of a wicked woman-- I thought all of scheming was just a ruse to keep Kitty interested."</b><br /><br />And while it's not pertinent to this discussion, he ends the statement with a punchline:<br /><br /><b>"I mean, the Hellfire Club isn't really into world domination thats just a ploy to get the women to dress up as dominatrix... Isn't it?"</b>Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580725636327122073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-71428610787060599492015-06-17T01:59:26.692-05:002015-06-17T01:59:26.692-05:00wwk5d: Also, why would Courtney pretend to be Sat-...wwk5d: <i>Also, why would Courtney pretend to be Sat-Yr-9 pretending to be Courtney? If anything, given what we know of the character, she would tell Brian immediately about what happened.</i><br /><br />I must stress it has from the beginning been nothing but a desperate attempt to clear away Claremont's assumed forgetting of Courtney's demise. It's only a "reasonable doubt" I'm after here, not a fullblown Matlock revelation which would make the jury go "ooooh!". Like Chewbacca living on Endor, it doesn't necessarily make sense, ultimately.<br /><br />It is curious though why Courtney-616 is a mere banker when her every other counterpart is a Galactic Imperatrix. It is in the realm of plausible that upon meeting one of them representing her full potential, she would have something within her unleashed, especially in a life-threatening situation. It may also be I've read to many comics and just can't cope with a plain death. I'm off to Mephisto then I guess.<br /><br />It's just inherently wrong though that Claremont would pull a Naze with a female supporting character.<br /><br />Good point from you regarding the nature of cliffhanger in #266, in all cases, wwk5d.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-89372619682135379952015-06-16T23:52:42.203-05:002015-06-16T23:52:42.203-05:00(Sorry, meant #19, not #21.)(Sorry, meant #19, not #21.)Bennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-22930400641467072872015-06-16T22:28:03.927-05:002015-06-16T22:28:03.927-05:00@Teebore
At the very least, it tells us someone (...<i>@Teebore<br /><br />At the very least, it tells us someone (either Claremont or Davis) was paying enough attention to give us a visual reminder (however slight) of Courtney's true identity </i><br /><br />It's Claremont, not Davis! Check out the final panel of Excalibur #21-- it's definitely in the script. (It's still kind of dumb, though.)Bennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-21353263404360082482015-06-16T10:08:56.104-05:002015-06-16T10:08:56.104-05:00@Ben: I don't have the issue in front of me, ...@Ben: <i> I don't have the issue in front of me, so I'm not sure if they're featured prominently in this issue, but if you look REALLY closely in the cake/icing sequence, you can just barely see one. </i><br /><br />Well, I completely missed that, but that's a cool detail. At the very least, it tells us someone (either Claremont or Davis) was paying enough attention to give us a visual reminder (however slight) of Courtney's true identity, which suggests that "Claremont forgot" isn't the explanation for why Courtney's identity is never mentioned in this issue. I guess he really did just want it to be subtle bit only long time and/or careful readers would remember, at this point. Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-85890789993870597322015-06-16T09:53:05.577-05:002015-06-16T09:53:05.577-05:00Well, it isn't exactly like Uncanny #266. The...Well, it isn't exactly like Uncanny #266. There, the shot itself is the cliffhanger, whereas in Courtney/Sat-Yr-9, the hint that Courtney has been replaced is the actual cliffhanger. <br /><br />Also, why would Courtney pretend to be Sat-Yr-9 pretending to be Courtney? If anything, given what we know of the character, she would tell Brian immediately about what happened.<br /><br />In any case, its pretty moot, since CC forgets about it, and Davis has Sat-Yr-9 reveal to Brian that she killed and replaced Courtney during his solo run (though he never addresses why she was interested in Kitty).wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-78081743031248980172015-06-15T19:00:44.980-05:002015-06-15T19:00:44.980-05:00Yyeah, I know that, but if we're trying to No-...Yyeah, I know that, but if we're trying to No-Prize away the questionable continuity handling by Claremont and the inglorious assumed end of Courtney, that would be my suggestion. Sat-Yr-9 shows up and then in the next panel there's a zap in the apartment seen from outside. There just might be room for an off-panel evil gloating between panels of EX #5 by Sat-Yr-9 about what's about to happen and the reasons for it and a surprise maneouvre by Courtney to wrestle the ray gun from Sat-Ur-9 and zap her instead.<br /><br />I mean, if it was a goddamn TV show, the scene shown on panel would be a dead giveaway that it certainly didn't go like we are expected to assume. I mean come one, there's <i>exactly</i> that scene in upcoming Uncanny #266!<br /><br />Because of reasons unknown to us, because we didn't catch Sat-Yr-9's exposition, Courtney chooses to masquerade herself as Sat-Yr-9 masquerading as Courtney, pens in a tattoo, that sort of thing. She's just met her exact doppelganger who obviously has some connection to Brian. Who could she be going to go tell about it in any case? But then nothing follows from it and she kind of just shrugs it off.Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-10100814345104119832015-06-15T16:11:10.489-05:002015-06-15T16:11:10.489-05:00@wwk5d
The tattoo on her thigh is supposed to be ...<i>@wwk5d <br />The tattoo on her thigh is supposed to be the main clue that Courtney was replaced by Sat-Yr-9.</i><br /><br />"Courtney" also sports earrings of the same design, and shows them off a fair amount. I don't have the issue in front of me, so I'm not sure if they're featured prominently in this issue, but if you look REALLY closely in the cake/icing sequence, you can just barely see one. <br />Bennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-4447022612609354822015-06-15T15:37:38.241-05:002015-06-15T15:37:38.241-05:00The tattoo on her thigh is supposed to be the main...The tattoo on her thigh is supposed to be the main clue that Courtney was replaced by Sat-Yr-9.<br /><br />http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3o-qXe2wB_k/U9peSVr2KlI/AAAAAAAAV3U/W4c-JGi06Eo/s1600/ash.jpg<br /><br />CC has been hinting at some connection between Sat-Yr-9 and Kitty, so there is some basis for wanting to corrupt her or whatever...but CC never gets around to explaining it, and Alan Davis, during his solo run, never really addresses it either. wwk5dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-83422519600056419052015-06-15T15:03:23.869-05:002015-06-15T15:03:23.869-05:00Gentlemen. The charred remains in the early issue ...Gentlemen. The charred remains in the early issue of Excalibur are Sat-Yr-9's. Courtney is a Claremont woman, and wouldn't be bested in a pesky ambush like that. If she at any later point appears to be Sat-Yr-9, that's Courtney posing as her to get to the bottom of the shenanigans and pulls it of just marvelously courtesy of her experience as an Earth woman in a position of power.<br /><br />Fast forward 20something years, they totally rip that off in the Doctor Who 50th Anniversary episode with Queen Liz.<br /><br />Teemunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-89876087766184663552015-06-15T14:28:10.572-05:002015-06-15T14:28:10.572-05:00@Blam: Did Claremont really just forget?
@Teebore...<i>@Blam: Did Claremont really just forget?<br /><br />@Teebore I...I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but man, it's hard not to think that, isn't it?</i><br /><br />It does sort of seem like it at times, and if you were reading it without knowing that Courtney had been replaced, you would have no idea, which I think is a weakness. On the other hand, Claremont is definitely (if quietly) dropping hints that "Courtney"/Sat-Yr-9 is trying to corrupt Kitty here. I guess the main problem, to me, is that Sat-Yr-9 has always come off as a monster on a grand scale rather than the type of character who would have the inclination (or social skills!) to quietly corrupt her protege by playing the part of the cool, chill aunt in such a protracted way. It doesn't feel like Sat-Yr-9's style-- without knowing the deal, it's easier to just think that Courtney is a little more evil than she'd previously been presented as. <br />Bennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-88074742916030194932015-06-15T12:33:29.573-05:002015-06-15T12:33:29.573-05:00@Ben: But it's all worth it for Davis's so...@Ben: <i>But it's all worth it for Davis's solo run, which is pretty much the best thing ever. </i><br /><br />I'm looking forward to it. With Claremont's run almost over and most of it taken up by ONE FREAKING STORY, I'm realizing that it isn't until Davis' run that the full potential of the series gets realized. <br /><br />@Mela, Anonymous: <i>And I'd be fine with it if it wasn't a crazy space Nazi posing as Courtney. The villainous aspect is off-putting.</i><br /><br />That, and the age thing, aside, the other troubling part is that, AFAIK, it goes nowhere/means nothing in the grand scheme of things, which then makes it read even weirder and more unnecessary in hindsight. <br /><br />@Blam: <i>Did Claremont really just forget?</i><br /><br />I...I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but man, it's hard not to think that, isn't it? Austin Gortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281239771248780430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-4967735452542334232015-06-14T10:34:09.340-05:002015-06-14T10:34:09.340-05:00Between Kitty’s glare while fingerlicking and the ...Between Kitty’s glare while fingerlicking and the "I am all yours" text it s hard to not read anything dirty. <br /><br />Teebore, you cut off a great gag, when after noticing "Kitty"’s taller and before complaining to the Byrne character, the inspector also remarks that Kitty’s "physiognomic configuration" is different.<br /><br />Let me be the 137th to point out how great is Alan Davis’ art.Frenchienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-78685962235717639102015-06-13T16:09:48.452-05:002015-06-13T16:09:48.452-05:00// who is actually Sat-yr-9, remember, even though...<br><i>// who is actually Sat-yr-9, remember, even though this issue does nothing to remind us of that //</i><br /><br />Yeah… The splash page makes this omission or oversight especially egregious, as it compares Opal-Luna Saturnyne and Courtney Ross when the latter actually isn’t Courtney Ross. Did Claremont really just forget?<br /><br>Blamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342343767763035991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-14033512952650332562015-06-12T06:51:40.831-05:002015-06-12T06:51:40.831-05:00It's not just the villainous aspect. It's ...It's not just the villainous aspect. It's also the fact that it's an adult woman and a 15-year old girl.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-68778284090537180412015-06-12T06:18:07.566-05:002015-06-12T06:18:07.566-05:00"Dirty or not, it's a weird panel."
...<i>"Dirty or not, it's a weird panel."</i><br /><br />I've read a few different writings about this scene, one of which is a coming-out story, so the Ho Yay is probably 100% intentional. This is Claremont, after all.<br /><br />(And I'd be fine with it if it wasn't a crazy space Nazi posing as Courtney. The villainous aspect is off-putting.)Melahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05539894845356203447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-88181730388879624942015-06-11T16:51:25.080-05:002015-06-11T16:51:25.080-05:00Good news! It's over! Bad news! It's about...Good news! It's over! Bad news! It's about to get worse! (WAY WORSE.) The most notable thing about the remaining 18 or so issues between now and Davis's return is that unleash Scott Lobdell on the X-Universe. AN EXTREMELY DUBIOUS DISTINCTION. <br /><br />But it's all worth it for Davis's solo run, which is pretty much the best thing ever. Bennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7266470995513648978.post-43660010425456592502015-06-11T14:39:38.564-05:002015-06-11T14:39:38.564-05:00Well, its over. There are some nice issues and mom...Well, its over. There are some nice issues and moments throughout, but had it been 4 or 5 issues shorter, and had there been a point to all of this universe jaunting (ie, someone chasing them, them chasing someone, some type of quest, etc), then it might have been better received. But given the abrupt and arbitrary way it ends, it could have ended this way 4 or 5 issues ago and it wouldn't have changed a thing. I mean, not even a few pages of Excaliber having to combine their powers to realign the Cosmic Universe Thingamabob to set realities right?<br /><br />"Dirty or not, it's a weird panel."<br /><br />Ho Yay alert!<br /><br />"He'll return to the series, as writer and penciler, with issue #42"<br /><br />Prepare to slog through a lot of...slog till we get there.<br /><br />Still, a Davis issue is still a joy to look at, at least. And I always loved that cover.<br /><br />wwk5dnoreply@blogger.com